Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The issue has been resolved: Abstract Class has replaced ADT.
No, you are trying to find the One True Concept of Programming, and
you will not succeed.
But some wider reading and history might help. The notion of an
"abstract class" was invented by
"Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>
> Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > The problem is that someone just popped out and said "The ADT is not
> > longer relevant, it died 10 years ago".
>
> That's not what I said. You are getting really annoying; it's as if
> you *want* to misunders
"Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>
> Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > The problem is that someone just popped out and said "The ADT is not
> > longer relevant, it died 10 years ago".
>
> That's not what I said. You are getting really annoying; it's as if
> you *want* to misunders
"Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>
> Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > >>There are--horror of horrors--data type problems that abstract data
> > >>types are unable to adequately describe, and this is precisely what
> > >>led to their demise as a fundamental organizing principle abou
Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >>There are--horror of horrors--data type problems that abstract data
> >>types are unable to adequately describe, and this is precisely what
> >>led to their demise as a fundamental organizing principle about ten
> >>years ago.
>
> Which the means t
"Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
> First failure mode: ADT specifications do not include information on
> time complexity or expected uses. Consider for example an X 11
> "window" as an ADT. Now, what would you say if a spreadsheet design
> started off with "ok, create 1,000,000 windows, one for e
> > longer relevant, it died 10 years ago". To me that is as if someone
> > said "Hey, do you know that they moved Oslo to Sweden?" I can not
> > just take someone's word for it, no matter who that someone is.
>
> Thomas did not say that the ADT is no longer relevant, he just said
> that the big
ADTs turned into classes, when it appeared that there was more research funding available.
On Mon, 2002-04-22 at 15:01, Patrick Strasser wrote:
Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>
>
>>There are--horror of horrors--data type problems that abstract data
>>types are
Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>
>
>>There are--horror of horrors--data type problems that abstract data
>>types are unable to adequately describe, and this is precisely what
>>led to their demise as a fundamental organizing principle about ten
>>years ago.
> And now I h
* Jan Atle Ramsli writes:
> "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>> Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>> > So, I can safely assume that some word just flew a little to high
>> for > me, that ADTs are as valid as when I read about them for the
>> first time, > and that they are valid under
"Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>
> Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > So, I can safely assume that some word just flew a little to high for
> > me, that ADTs are as valid as when I read about them for the first time,
> > and that they are valid under the same rules that guide every
"Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>
> Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> That's not what I said. You are getting really annoying; it's as if
> you *want* to misunderstand.
> Geez, an elementary programming text might help.
>
> Two classic examples:
>
> First failure mode: ADT specifi
"Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>
> Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > So, I can safely assume that some word just flew a little to high for
> > me, that ADTs are as valid as when I read about them for the first time,
> > and that they are valid under the same rules that guide every
Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> So, I can safely assume that some word just flew a little to high for
> me, that ADTs are as valid as when I read about them for the first time,
> and that they are valid under the same rules that guide everything else:
> Relativity?
No, you can't as
Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The problem is that someone just popped out and said "The ADT is not
> longer relevant, it died 10 years ago".
That's not what I said. You are getting really annoying; it's as if
you *want* to misunderstand.
> That is: I have been told that some pr
"Ryan M. Golbeck" wrote:
>
> As I said above, you misinterpreted his words (afiak) by taking them
> too far.
So, I can safely assume that some word just flew a little to high for
me, that ADTs are as valid as when I read about them for the first time,
and that they are valid under the same rules
Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
>
> This is just my hobby. I learned everything with some information from
> the internet and reading a lot of code. I don't think you need to know
> everything for 100%, you just need to know that much to get the job
> done in a right way.
You are pointing out something imp
Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The problem is that someone just popped out and said "The ADT is not
> longer relevant, it died 10 years ago". To me that is as if someone
> said "Hey, do you know that they moved Oslo to Sweden?" I can not
> just take someone's word for it, no matt
On Mon, Apr 22, 2002 at 08:57:31AM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
> >
>
> > There are--horror of horrors--data type problems that abstract data
> > types are unable to adequately describe, and this is precisely what
> > led to their demise as a fundamental organizi
All the doc and meta-doc I wanted is in this thread.
It could be put together in an intro called 'What you need to understand
before trying to contribute to the Hurd' ...
Yes -- you are right! Please put it together! (I don't think anyone
else has the time, interest, or knowledge righ
"Robert J. Chassell" wrote:
>
> Jeff Bailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Pick a section of code, and hack on it. Show that you know what
> you're talking about, and people will listen to you. If you see a
> decision made that you think is incorrect, speak up and be clear what
>
Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
>
> On Mon, Apr 22, 2002 at 12:16:19PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> > Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sun, Apr 21, 2002 at 04:31:15PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> > > > I do not want to hijack the Hurd for my own dark purposes.
> > > > I am 42 years old, I am
Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
>
> Please see it from my perspective: If a 2-year old girl got impressed by
20! not 2, not 200, 20!!
___
Help-hurd mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-hurd
On Mon, Apr 22, 2002 at 12:16:19PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 21, 2002 at 04:31:15PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> > > I do not want to hijack the Hurd for my own dark purposes.
> > > I am 42 years old, I am not looking impress the girls.
> >
>
Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
>
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2002 at 04:31:15PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> > I do not want to hijack the Hurd for my own dark purposes.
> > I am 42 years old, I am not looking impress the girls.
>
> Hey, but ... it works! :)
Please see it from my perspective: If a 2-year old
On Sun, Apr 21, 2002 at 08:43:52PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> As far as I'm concerned, your mail above is a significant piece of
> documentation - I have a good mind to rip it off and paste into a
> 'Programmers guide' (with your permission, of course :-)
If it's a free document (eg under a
Philip Dodd wrote:
>
> > Some more: Now we understand exchother perfectly.
> > I _do_ need to read at least two books in order to even contemplate
> > doing something useful - I can not, not under any circumstances, program
> > on something I do not 100% (not 99.99%!) understand.
> > And now I he
"Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>
> There are--horror of horrors--data type problems that abstract data
> types are unable to adequately describe, and this is precisely what
> led to their demise as a fundamental organizing principle about ten
> years ago.
I absolutely did not know this!
Could you
> Some more: Now we understand exchother perfectly.
> I _do_ need to read at least two books in order to even contemplate
> doing something useful - I can not, not under any circumstances, program
> on something I do not 100% (not 99.99%!) understand.
> And now I hear that Hurd is based on concept
"Thomas Bushnell, BSG" wrote:
>
> There are--horror of horrors--data type problems that abstract data
> types are unable to adequately describe, and this is precisely what
> led to their demise as a fundamental organizing principle about ten
> years ago.
Some more: Now we understand exchother p
Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I asked you if you thought it was possible that any Hurd server could be
> implemented with only 5 functions.
Whe cares how many functions it takes?
> (And yes, I said ADT, and NO! ADT is not a buzzword, and if my old
> software enineering tutor got
Farid Hajji wrote:
>
> Hi Atle,
Hi, yourself :-)
> The purpose of the Hurd/L4 port is not primarily speed, but to get
> a better design of the Hurd.
.. and a stone fell from my, eh, Hard ..?
> The Hurd/L4 port forces us to rethink many design decisions that
> were valid at the time when Mach was
Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
>
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2002 at 04:31:15PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> > I do not want to hijack the Hurd for my own dark purposes.
> > I am 42 years old, I am not looking impress the girls.
>
> Hey, but ... it works! :)
>
> > I try to find a way to contribute.
>
> The
Jeff Bailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Pick a section of code, and hack on it. Show that you know what
you're talking about, and people will listen to you. If you see a
decision made that you think is incorrect, speak up and be clear what
part you object to, what should be done
Hi Atle,
it may be futile, but let's try to put this thread back on
track by talking about what can be done _now_ and postpone
the philosophical issues for later. Sorry for interfering
in that very amusing discussion and for forking off another
thread. ;-)
[Cc: l4-hurd, since it covers Hurd/L4-r
On Sun, Apr 21, 2002 at 06:17:27PM +0200, Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
> Those files define what I think you mean with strategy. They are the Hurd
> server interfaces used by the C library to implement the POSIX interface,
> and that is used among the Hurd servers to implement the Hurd (d'oh).
This w
On Sun, Apr 21, 2002 at 04:31:15PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> I do not want to hijack the Hurd for my own dark purposes.
> I am 42 years old, I am not looking impress the girls.
Hey, but ... it works! :)
> I try to find a way to contribute.
The best way to get into the Hurd for an experie
Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> most things have ben said in this thread, just a couple of remarks that I
> feel are missing.
Could I just be allowed to make one remark, and then
I'll crawl back into my hole :-)
I think Marcus din't find something wrong with my 'tone' or that I have
been
Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
>
> Frankly, I think you couldn't be more wrong. You seem to assume that there
> are some hidden resources which can't get to work because some property of
> the Hurd (age? lack of interfaces?) stops them.
You took me seriously, and I thank you for that.
You also gave t
"Ryan M. Golbeck" wrote:
>
> Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > .. with the purpose of _?
>
> How could we know? You are the one doing it. I learned all those
> theoretical buzz words in first year of Unversity too. Maybe you
> should try doing something before complaining.
* Jan Atle Ramsli writes:
> Jeff Bailey wrote:
>> It's amazing that with such a patronizing tone that you would
>> expect a positive response.
>>
> This looks like the response I got the last time.
What response? I haven't been able to find anything in the archives.
> I try to _understand_, I
On Sun, Apr 21, 2002 at 04:03:21PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> I try to _understand_, I try to find some common ground, what are the
> guidelines, how am I to proceeed?
I have just checked. From what I have in my mail archive, you asked one
question on bug-hurd in November last year, about w
Jan Atle Ramsli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> This looks like the response I got the last time.
How long did it take you to provoke the last time?
> I try to _understand_, I try to find some common ground, what are
>the guidelines, how am I to proceeed? If the idea of 'strategy' and
>'interrup
Hi,
most things have ben said in this thread, just a couple of remarks that I
feel are missing.
On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 06:46:17PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> That, and an attitude that someone who hasn't plowed through the entire
> source tree isn't worth talking too, creates a circle that
Jeff Bailey wrote:
>
> It's amazing that with such a patronizing tone that you would expect a
> positive response.
>
This looks like the response I got the last time.
I am not the 'patron' here, _you_ are!
I try to _understand_, I try to find some common ground, what are the
guidelines, how am
On Sun, Apr 21, 2002 at 03:07:08PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> The last time I was on about this, I did not get a positive response
> to this.
It's amazing that with such a patronizing tone that you would expect a
positive response.
Pick a section of code, and hack on it. Show that you kn
Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
>
>
> > What I wanted to do, was remove this 1Gb limit, that would be a simple
> > thing to do if I would know which tools were available to me, what I
> > could do in the strategy section, and what I could no in the interrupt
> > section.
>
> The tools available to you? Th
On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 07:46:10PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> "Alfred M. Szmidt" wrote:
> >
> > * Jan Atle Ramsli writes:
> >
> > > I think you may find that this will improve with the change from
> > > Mach to L4. But imagine if the first year had been used to analyze
> > > and specify it.
Maybe I should try to look if I didn't have any unfinished sentences
before pressing the send button.
On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 10:35:21PM +0200, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 06:46:17PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> > Ognyan Kulev wrote:
> > > I wonder why so many people talk t
On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 07:24:59PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> Jeff Bailey wrote:
>
> > Perhaps you've noticed that there have been a fair number of new
> > conributors.
> I have noticed a significant improvement, and it may just have coincided
> with the change to L4, but I don't think it's
On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 06:46:17PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> Ognyan Kulev wrote:
> > I wonder why so many people talk that Hurd will not be able to do
> > anything sensible soon instead of improving it.
>
> I think you may find that this will improve with the change from Mach to
> L4.
What
On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 08:27:48PM +0200, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
> Why? The Hurd is not Mach, or L4, it is just a bunch of translators and is
> quite independent of Mach.
(nitpick-mode 1)
It's a bunch of servers, most of them being translators.
> Personally, I couldn't care if we dethrone "the
* Jan Atle Ramsli writes:
> "Alfred M. Szmidt" wrote:
>> * Jan Atle Ramsli writes:
> Well, now you are at center of the what I think is the problem. Who
> says either of Mach or L4 is even suitable for this purpose? There
> was a possibility of a total 'Faridization' of the whole thing
> (sorry
"Alfred M. Szmidt" wrote:
>
> * Jan Atle Ramsli writes:
>
> > I think you may find that this will improve with the change from
> > Mach to L4. But imagine if the first year had been used to analyze
> > and specify it.
>
> Why? The Hurd is not Mach, or L4, it is just a bunch of translators and i
* Jan Atle Ramsli writes:
> Ognyan Kulev wrote:
>>
>> Marcin Wyszomierski wrote:
>> > On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 01:48:10PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
>> >> The Hurd v1.0 BETA (C) 1989-2009 > The Hurd v1.0 unstable (C)
>> 1989-2005 > The Hurd v1.9 testing (C) 1989-2021 > The Hurd v2.0
>> stable (
Jeff Bailey wrote:
> Perhaps you've noticed that there have been a fair number of new
> conributors.
I have noticed a significant improvement, and it may just have coincided
with the change to L4, but I don't think it's coincidence.
The idea of having an API where yo can mentally picture your mes
> I wonder why so many people talk that Hurd will not be able to do
> anything sensible soon instead of improving it.
Well, I would love to. Nowadays I'm trying to boot it for the first time
:)
--
"One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing star."
-Nietzche
__
On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 06:46:17PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> That, and an attitude that someone who hasn't plowed through the
> entire source tree isn't worth talking too, creates a circle that
> scares off potential recruits.
> I have read this list for several years now,
Perhaps you've
Ognyan Kulev wrote:
>
> Marcin Wyszomierski wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 01:48:10PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
> >> The Hurd v1.0 BETA (C) 1989-2009
> >The Hurd v1.0 unstable (C) 1989-2005
> >The Hurd v1.9 testing (C) 1989-2021
> >The Hurd v2.0 stable (C) 1989-2053
>
> I
Marcin Wyszomierski wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 01:48:10PM +0200, Jan Atle Ramsli wrote:
>> The Hurd v1.0 BETA (C) 1989-2009
>The Hurd v1.0 unstable (C) 1989-2005
>The Hurd v1.9 testing (C) 1989-2021
>The Hurd v2.0 stable (C) 1989-2053
I wonder why so many people talk that Hur
60 matches
Mail list logo
