-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Why can't the track format be changed? (was:
Physical
record size query)
Behind the scenes, some controllers only store the active amount of data
for a
track, and monitor the VTOC for datasets being deleted.
This is called Thin Provisioning and allows
W dniu 2012-02-07 23:22, Bill Fairchild pisze:
You listed the only two things supported by IBM in its operating
system. There is also an unknown number of user applications with
files that have keys, which could be BSAM, BDAM, or BPAM (PDS with
keys in its members and not just in its
In
cajtoo5_tp0_vy4usbrajdxo9phjcvrtvevqpco+pq-spf_c...@mail.gmail.com,
on 02/07/2012
at 05:36 PM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com said:
Actually, VSAM basically formats its datasets like FBA disk, and PDSE
is a type of VSAM file.
No, VSAM has no way to format a disk as FBA; it has to
In nrh3j7pn7qerevfk7hovdjk61qc509h...@4ax.com, on 02/07/2012
at 09:03 PM, Clark Morris cfmpub...@ns.sympatico.ca said:
4. Restrict the FBA devices to FBA data architectures (VSAM, PDSE,
HFS, zFS, any other FBA architecture. Thus no QSAM, no BSAM, no PDS,
no BDAM, no traditional Spool.
How
When did the manufacturing of real CKD devices end?
Bill Fairchild
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of
Anne Lynn Wheeler
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 6:20 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Why can't the track
: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 2:37 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Why can't the track format be changed? (was: Physical record size
query)
Yes, I listed only two things supported, but you did not add anything else
which is SUPPORTED. ISAM datasets, PASSWORD - those things are dead now.
User
-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Anne Lynn Wheeler
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 6:20 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Why can't the track format be changed?
it wasn't too long before real CKD were no longer manufactured ...
CKD
@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Anne Lynn Wheeler
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 6:20 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Why can't the track format be changed?
it wasn't too long before real CKD were no longer manufactured ...
CKD becoming an obsolete technology simulated on real FBA. various
-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of
Vernooij, CP - SPLXM
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 8:54 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Why can't the track format be changed?
I think when manufacturing real 3390 devices ended.
Kees
W dniu 2012-02-08 16:03, John Gilmore pisze:
Minimally, modus ponens yields the result that the production of real
CKD devices did not end before the production of real 3390s--which
were/are real CKD devices--ended.
Yes and no.
It depends on definition of real CKD device.
Actually 3390 and
On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 22:41:34 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:
In nrh3j7pn7qerevfk7hovdjk61qc509h...@4ax.com, on 02/07/2012
at 09:03 PM, Clark Morris said:
4. Restrict the FBA devices to FBA data architectures (VSAM, PDSE,
HFS, zFS, any other FBA architecture. Thus no QSAM, no BSAM, no
In
CAPD5F5oYqr6=-+xzsa9hcvgafquskcg+vns7pdh+-kniuay...@mail.gmail.com,
on 02/08/2012
at 10:03 AM, John Gilmore johnwgilmore0...@gmail.com said:
Minimally, modus ponens yields the result that the production of real
CKD devices did not end before the production of real 3390s--which
were/are real
device, but the
elecronics hidden the cells from MVS view.
AFAIK the last fully real CKD device was 3350 (1975 GA).
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#58 Why can't the track format be changed?
3380/3390 were the low-level emulation on kind of FBA.
One of the things was that 3380
That leads to a question that I've been thinking about for some time.
Since the 3390 geometry is emulated by modern storage control units,
why then are the inefficiencies of small blocks emulated also? There
are not SLEDs actually storing the data, why are IBG's, sectors, and
all the other CKD
Behind the scenes, some controllers only store the active amount of
data for a track, and monitor the VTOC for datasets being deleted.
This is called Thin Provisioning and allows a small amount of
overcommitting.
On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Hunkeler Peter (KIUP 4)
Think of all of the code within z/OS that actually depends upon device
geometry. The C and H in CCHHR, etc. A hallmark of z/OS has been
backward compatibility. If this code were to be changed, all of that
backward compatibility would go poof! For what benefit. Customers have
revolted against
Staller, Allan allan.stal...@kbmg.com wrote in message
news:45e5f2f45d7878458ee5ca679697335502e25...@usdaexch01.kbm1.loc...
Think of all of the code within z/OS that actually depends upon device
geometry. The C and H in CCHHR, etc. A hallmark of z/OS has been
backward compatibility. If this
Guys,
I worked with a guy for years who said records was the way to allocate because
it we geometry independent...no cchhrr
Sent from my iPad
Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer
www.identityforge.com
On Feb 7, 2012, at 3:51 PM, Vernooij, CP - SPLXM kees.verno...@klm.com
wrote:
On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 15:56:26 -0500, Scott Ford wrote:
I worked with a guy for years who said records was the way to allocate because
it we geometry independent...no cchhrr
Heresy! He'll never know how many tracks he's using, nor how
many records in each. Next thing you know, he'll even
W dniu 2012-02-07 20:24, Hunkeler Peter (KIUP 4) pisze:
[...]
The C in CKD stands for count and this is some information about the
amount of data following in the next data block (the amount may vary
from block to block). Likewise K in CKD stands for key and some
access methods are using key
In
dc74548a025aff4a85f46926802a9b2307a4e...@chsa1035.share.beluni.net,
on 02/07/2012
at 08:24 PM, Hunkeler Peter (KIUP 4)
peter.hunke...@credit-suisse.com said:
So, both are bits of information that are used and thus cannot be
dropped.
ITYM that they cannot be dropped without first updating
-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of
R.S.
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 3:49 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Why can't the track format be changed? (was: Physical record size
query)
Well... The only supported things that still use K from CKD
On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 3:12 PM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote:
deleted
But doesn't PDSE emulate FBA under CKD emulated on RAID
implemented on FBA? Even as VM/CMS emulates FBA for MDFS.
-- gil
Actually, VSAM basically formats its datasets like FBA disk, and PDSE
is a type of VSAM
paulgboul...@aim.com (Paul Gilmartin) writes:
But doesn't PDSE emulate FBA under CKD emulated on RAID
implemented on FBA? Even as VM/CMS emulates FBA for MDFS.
CMS has been logical FBA (on real CKD) all the way back to cp40/cms
... when it was originally developed ... and was called cambridge
On 7 Feb 2012 14:20:19 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:
In
dc74548a025aff4a85f46926802a9b2307a4e...@chsa1035.share.beluni.net,
on 02/07/2012
at 08:24 PM, Hunkeler Peter (KIUP 4)
peter.hunke...@credit-suisse.com said:
So, both are bits of information that are used and thus cannot be
Allan:
All good stuff. But I think IBM indicated that the use of SDB would
be king. Indeed it makes sense. To tie themselves forever to 3390 is
foolish (IMO) not that its bad mind you but it defeats the whole idea
of system managed storage.
SMS is a stated direction. The map is in place
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