Re: Excellent choice for summer meeting location!

2005-01-03 Thread Aki Niemi
ext Glen Zorn (gwz) wrote: Ha Ha. You (and others) have made the point quite well that the majority of IETFers are probably hardy enough to suffer through the week without actually dying. So what? The real question is why we must suffer at all (I'm actually rather surprised that Phoenix has not

Re: Issue #727: Section 2.2, 4, 7 - Miscellaneous editorial

2005-01-03 Thread Brian E Carpenter
John C Klensin wrote: --On Sunday, 02 January, 2005 08:19 -0500 Scott Bradner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: brian asks Perhaps we do indeed need to explicitly limit the IAOC Chair to chairing the IAOC. But we almost do - the following paragraph says: The chair of the IAOC shall have the authority

RE: Excellent choice for summer meeting location!

2005-01-03 Thread Harald Tveit Alvestrand
--On lørdag, januar 01, 2005 18:20:02 -0800 Glen Zorn (gwz) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ha Ha. You (and others) have made the point quite well that the majority of IETFers are probably hardy enough to suffer through the week without actually dying. So what? The real question is why we must

RE: Excellent choice for summer meeting location!

2005-01-03 Thread John C Klensin
--On Monday, 03 January, 2005 11:58 +1100 Dassa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | -Original Message- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | On Behalf Of Theodore Ts'o | Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 11:20 AM | To: Glen Zorn (gwz) | Cc: 'Iljitsch van Beijnum'; 'IETF Discussion'

Re: AdminRest: BCP -03: Special audits

2005-01-03 Thread Soininen Jonne (Nokia-NET/Helsinki)
Brian, On Sun, 2005-01-02 at 12:24, ext Brian E Carpenter wrote: Jonne, Soininen Jonne (Nokia-NET/Helsinki) wrote: Hi, sorry to tune in late, but keeping up with all the mails that are going around I needed a vacation at the place of my in-laws... I think the issue of a yearly

Re: Adminrest: BCP -03: Compensation for IAOC members

2005-01-03 Thread Soininen Jonne (Nokia-NET/Helsinki)
Brian et al., would x.x Compensation for IOAC members The IOAC members shall not receive any compensation (apart from reimbursement of expenses) for their services as members of the IOAC. do the trick then? (Modified from the ISOC by-laws.) I really do believe

Re: Adminrest: BCP -03: Compensation for IAOC members

2005-01-03 Thread Scott Bradner
Jonne asks: would x.x Compensation for IOAC members The IOAC members shall not receive any compensation (apart from reimbursement of expenses) for their services as members of the IOAC. do the trick then? works for me

RE: Adminrest: BCP -03: Compensation for IAOC members

2005-01-03 Thread Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
Scott reponds to Jonne: Jonne asks: would x.x Compensation for IOAC members The IOAC members shall not receive any compensation (apart from reimbursement of expenses) for their services as members of the IOAC. do the trick then? works for me personal

RE: Adminrest: BCP -03: Compensation for IAOC members

2005-01-03 Thread Scott Bradner
bert asks: The current text in section 3, 1st para states The IAOC consists of volunteers, does that not say enough? I'd say no - volunteers can get paid in some cases Scott ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org

RE: Issue #727: Section 2.2, 4, 7 - Miscellaneous editorial

2005-01-03 Thread Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
Inline -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John C Klensin Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 18:41 To: Scott Bradner; ietf@ietf.org Subject: Re: Issue #727: Section 2.2, 4, 7 - Miscellaneous editorial --On Sunday, 02 January, 2005 08:19

RE: Adminrest: BCP -03: Compensation for IAOC members

2005-01-03 Thread Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
bert asks: The current text in section 3, 1st para states The IAOC consists of volunteers, does that not say enough? I'd say no - volunteers can get paid in some cases Sure... sometimes they also get a bottle of wine with Xmas. Should we add clear text about that too?

Re: Adminrest: BCP -03: Compensation for IAOC members

2005-01-03 Thread Brian E Carpenter
Scott Bradner wrote: bert asks: The current text in section 3, 1st para states The IAOC consists of volunteers, does that not say enough? I'd say no - volunteers can get paid in some cases x.x Compensation for IOAC members The IOAC members shall not receive any

RE: Adminrest: BCP -03: Compensation for IAOC members

2005-01-03 Thread Soininen Jonne (Nokia-NET/Helsinki)
Bert, On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 16:46, ext Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote: Scott reponds to Jonne: Jonne asks: would x.x Compensation for IOAC members The IOAC members shall not receive any compensation (apart from reimbursement of expenses) for their services as members

Re: Adminrest: BCP -03: Compensation for IAOC members

2005-01-03 Thread Soininen Jonne (Nokia-NET/Helsinki)
On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 17:10, ext Brian E Carpenter wrote: Scott Bradner wrote: bert asks: The current text in section 3, 1st para states The IAOC consists of volunteers, does that not say enough? I'd say no - volunteers can get paid in some cases x.x Compensation

Re: Adminrest: BCP -03: Compensation for IAOC members

2005-01-03 Thread EKR
Soininen Jonne (Nokia-NET/Helsinki) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bert, On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 16:46, ext Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote: Scott reponds to Jonne: Jonne asks: would x.x Compensation for IOAC members The IOAC members shall not receive any compensation (apart from

Re: Last Call on Language Tags (RE: draft-phillips-langtags-08)

2005-01-03 Thread JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
At 13:56 03/01/2005, John C Klensin wrote: I hope these are mutually exclusive. Yes, if this means that the three of them should be aggregated into the final strategy. (i) Since we have no Next-Best Current Practices category, publish this as an Informational Document,

Re: Excellent choice for summer meeting location!

2005-01-03 Thread Alexandru Petrescu
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Uh - how is Paris going to be physically dangerous. Are there terrorists planning on blowing up a tower, I really don't think a few warm days count as physically dangerous to most of the crowd I see at IETF meetings... This morning on radio - announce a trial of a very

Re: Last Call on Language Tags (RE: draft-phillips-langtags-08)

2005-01-03 Thread John C Klensin
--On Monday, 03 January, 2005 16:43 +0100 JFC (Jefsey) Morfin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 13:56 03/01/2005, John C Klensin wrote: I hope these are mutually exclusive. Yes, if this means that the three of them should be aggregated into the final strategy. No, I really meant pick one,

RE: Last Call on Language Tags (RE: draft-phillips-langtags-08)

2005-01-03 Thread Peter Constable
From: John C Klensin [EMAIL PROTECTED] (iii) One way to read this document, and 3066 itself for that matter, is that they constitute a critique of IS 639 in terms of its adequacy for Internet use. Not exactly. It reflects that ISO 639 alone does not support all of the

RE: draft-phillips-langtags-08, process, sp ecifications, stability, and extensions

2005-01-03 Thread Dave Singer
The *meaning* of any given language tag would be no more or less a problem under the proposed revision than it was for RFC 3066 or RFC 1766. For instance, there is a concurrent thread that has been discussing when country distinctions are appropriate or recommended (ca or ca-ES?); this

RE: draft-phillips-langtags-08, process, specifications, stability, and extensions

2005-01-03 Thread Peter Constable
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:ietf-languages- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Lilly I don't think it's that uncommon to refer to a specification A that makes use of another specification B as an application of B. Perhaps, but I think it's best to avoid misunderstanding in

Re: Adminrest: BCP -03: Compensation for IAOC members

2005-01-03 Thread Sam Hartman
Wijnen, == Wijnen, Bert (Bert) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wijnen, The current text in section 3, 1st para states Wijnen, The IAOC consists of volunteers, Wijnen, does that not say enough? I think it does. I haven't seen an argument for why more text is needed in the

RE: Last Call on Language Tags (RE: draft-phillips-langtags-08)

2005-01-03 Thread John C Klensin
--On Monday, 03 January, 2005 09:58 -0800 Peter Constable [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: John C Klensin [EMAIL PROTECTED] (iii) One way to read this document, and 3066 itself for that matter, is that they constitute a critique of IS 639 in terms of its adequacy for Internet

RE: Last Call on Language Tags (RE: draft-phillips-langtags-08)

2005-01-03 Thread Peter Constable
From: Peter Constable I'd also like to observe that various members of TC 37 and the ISO 639- RA/JAC have observed or participated in the development of this draft. For my part, it is not the draft I would have developed if I had undertaken it, but I see no problems with it from a TC 37 or

Re:Excellent choice for summer meeting location!

2005-01-03 Thread JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Hi Hidega, I think you should not take so seriously this type of comments in the IETF mail exploder. I could had a similar or even stronger reaction ;-) I guess they come as a way to complain about the lack of transparency in the way a venue is chosen, against the rules explained in the IETF web

Re: Excellent choice for summer meeting location!

2005-01-03 Thread Eliot Lear
Elwyn Davies wrote: Oh, and BTW I can go there on an (air-conditioned) train in only 3 hours. The USA should invest in a few high speed trains.. they are the world's best way to travel. There's a slightly bigger pond between the U.S. and France... Eliot

RE: Last Call on Language Tags (RE: draft-phillips-langtags-08)

2005-01-03 Thread Peter Constable
From: John C Klensin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignoring whether that very nearly happened in RFC 3066, because some of us would have taken exception to inserting a script mechanism then, let's assume that 3066 can be characterized as a language-locale standard (with some funny exceptions

RE: Excellent choice for summer meeting location!

2005-01-03 Thread Dassa
| -Original Message- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | On Behalf Of John C Klensin | Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 12:19 AM | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'IETF Discussion' | Subject: RE: Excellent choice for summer meeting location! | Dassa, | | For better or worse, we've

Re: Excellent choice for summer meeting location!

2005-01-03 Thread Alexandru Petrescu
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote: So what I can say is that I'm very happy that Paris is hosting this meeting and hope that some time Madrid has a similar opportunity, Oh, ok, yes, IETF, but where will the _Games_ be hosted? :-) Alex signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Language Tags to BCP: response to John Klensin

2005-01-03 Thread Addison Phillips [wM]
Which is what 3066 does. So the questions remain as to what real problems we have in internetworking that 3066 does not solve and, if there are such problems, whether they can be fixed by a less radical and complex change to the 3066 framework. There are real problems with the

RE: Excellent choice for summer meeting location!

2005-01-03 Thread Glen Zorn \(gwz\)
HIDEGA TIKU Lea RD-TCH-ISS supposedly scribbled: Dear Glen Zorn It is startling to see your remarks about, Paris in August as: a.deadly. On your mail of 31/12/2004 b.physical danger of meeting in Paris in August. On your mail of 31/12/2004 c.the point is the

RE: Excellent choice for summer meeting location!

2005-01-03 Thread Glen Zorn \(gwz\)
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ supposedly scribbled: Hi Hidega, I think you should not take so seriously this type of comments in the IETF mail exploder. I think that that is excellent advice. I could had a similar or even stronger reaction ;-) I guess they come as a way to complain about

Re: Excellent choice for summer meeting location!

2005-01-03 Thread Alexandru Petrescu
HIDEGA TIKU Lea RD-TCH-ISS wrote: France Telecom, the host for the 63rd IETF August 2005 meeting, is paying for the rental of the venue and provides the network. Please, where is the venue planned, if this information can be shared? Is it in the 75 or outside? Please don't take apparently harsh

RE: Excellent choice for summer meeting location!

2005-01-03 Thread Bill Strahm
I don't know how airline pricing works in .au - but here in the .us it seems that adding a short flight into a more regional airport can more than double the cost of an airplane ticket. Also note that a town of 100,000 will seldom have conference space that can host a conference that attracts

Re:Excellent choice for summer meeting location!

2005-01-03 Thread JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
I don't care too much, if they use IPv6 ! but is also difficult to make them better than those that we had in Barcelona ;-) Regards, Jordi De: Alexandru Petrescu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Responder a: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fecha: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 22:12:24 +0100 Para: [EMAIL

RE: Excellent choice for summer meeting location!

2005-01-03 Thread Thomas Gal
Couple of questions: -What kind of city with a population of 75,000 has hotel accommodations for 2000 people unless it's a tourist Mecca and likely expensive and overbooked? -What kind of mass transit does your typical city of that size have? On that note, what kind of car rental capacity is it

Re: Last Call on Language Tags (RE: draft-phillips-langtags-08)

2005-01-03 Thread JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
On 18:04 03/01/2005, John C Klensin said: No, I really meant pick one, since doing any combination I of the three that I have been able to think about would just produce more confusion. John, please review your propositions. They are not fully satisfactory because each address (correctly) only

RE: Last Call on Language Tags (RE: draft-phillips-langtags-08)

2005-01-03 Thread JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
On 20:37 03/01/2005, Peter Constable said: I note with interest that ccTLDs make use of ISO 3166 in spite of its potential for instability. In the case of ccTLDs, however, there is a considerable infrastructure for dealing with this: the DN system and strict procedures for deploying changes in

RE: Last Call on Language Tags (RE: draft-phillips-langtags-08)

2005-01-03 Thread John C Klensin
--On Monday, 03 January, 2005 12:29 -0800 Peter Constable [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: John C Klensin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignoring whether that very nearly happened in RFC 3066, because some of us would have taken exception to inserting a script mechanism then, let's assume that

RE: Excellent choice for summer meeting location!

2005-01-03 Thread Scott Bradner
Glen rants: Are you then claiming that there is _nowhere_ in France that a) is capable of hosting a meeting with the IETF's requirements and b) the weather is more pleasant? =20 how about Paris? http://www.paris.org/Accueil/Climate/gifs/paris.climate.temp.html seems like the news story

RE: draft-phillips-langtags-08, process, specifications, and extensions

2005-01-03 Thread Christian Huitema
Could you please pursue this rather technical discussion on a specialized list, rather than the main IETF list? -- Christian Huitema ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Language Tags: Response to a part of Jefsey's comments concerning the W3C

2005-01-03 Thread Addison Phillips [wM]
I'm not going to respond to most of Jefsey's comments. However, wearing my W3C hat for a moment Jefsey wrote: - RFC 3066bis wants to fix some of the W3C needs, in a way which would make these patches Internet standards. This is not the appropriate way. (There is a W3C document on its way,

Re: draft-phillips-langtags-08, process, specifications, and extensions

2005-01-03 Thread Sam Hartman
Christian == Christian Huitema [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Christian Could you please pursue this rather technical Christian discussion on a specialized list, rather than the main Christian IETF list? There is sort of this problem that most of this traffic is last call comments on a

RE: draft-phillips-langtags-08, process, specifications, and extensions

2005-01-03 Thread John C Klensin
--On Monday, 03 January, 2005 17:49 -0800 Christian Huitema [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could you please pursue this rather technical discussion on a specialized list, rather than the main IETF list? Christian, It seems to me that we are in a bit of a procedural bind on this. The spec has

RE: Last Call on Language Tags (RE: draft-phillips-langtags-08)

2005-01-03 Thread Peter Constable
John: How nice. In 2004, I discovered that I had no operational experience and then that I knew nothing about standardization processes outside the IETF. It is now only three days into 2005 and already I've learned that I haven't been focused on IT globalization. I anxiously await the

Re: Excellent choice for summer meeting location!

2005-01-03 Thread Franck Martin
Don't forget also: It is FULL of French! On serious note: go in the Alps. The ski stations are nearly empty (no snow), they have huge capacity (some were Winter Olympic places), the weather is quite good and the scenery is breath taking. Cheers Scott Bradner wrote: Glen rants:

Re: Excellent choice for summer meeting location!

2005-01-03 Thread Mark Prior
Franck Martin wrote: On serious note: go in the Alps. The ski stations are nearly empty (no snow), they have huge capacity (some were Winter Olympic places), the weather is quite good and the scenery is breath taking. Might I suggest that you find a suitable venue and a sponsor that can provide

Protocol Action: 'Algorithms for Internet Key Exchange version 1 (IKEv1)' to Proposed Standard

2005-01-03 Thread The IESG
The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Algorithms for Internet Key Exchange version 1 (IKEv1) ' draft-hoffman-ikev1-algorithms-03.txt as a Proposed Standard This document has been reviewed in the IETF but is not the product of an IETF Working Group. The IESG contact person is Russ

BCP 97, RFC 3967 on Clarifying when Standards Track Documents may Refer Normatively to Documents at a Lower Level

2005-01-03 Thread rfc-editor
A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 3967 Title: Clarifying when Standards Track Documents may Refer Normatively to Documents at a Lower Level Author(s): R. Bush, T. Narten Status: Best Current