Weekly posting summary for ietf@ietf.org

2009-06-04 Thread Thomas Narten
Total of 110 messages in the last 7 days. script run at: Fri Jun 5 00:53:02 EDT 2009 Messages | Bytes| Who +--++--+ 13.64% | 15 | 10.40% |73803 | mo...@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp 7.27% |8 | 6.18% |43869 |

Re: Gen-ART review of draft-ietf-geopriv-lbyr-requirements-07

2009-06-04 Thread Dean Willis
On Jun 4, 2009, at 9:24 AM, Cullen Jennings wrote: Thanks for review ... just wanted to respond to one point in this. On Jun 3, 2009, at 4:47 PM, Spencer Dawkins wrote: C5. User Identity Protection: The location URI MUST NOT contain information that identifies the user or device. Examp

Re: DNSSEC is NOT secure end to end (more tutorial than debating)

2009-06-04 Thread Mark Andrews
In message <4a285750.9010...@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>, Masataka Ohta writes: > Andrew Sullivan wrote: > > >>Though we have to trust the zone administration put correct referral > >>and glue data in a master zone file, unless we use DNSSEC, we don't > >>have to trust the zone administration nev

Re: DNSSEC is NOT secure end to end

2009-06-04 Thread Doug Otis
On Jun 3, 2009, at 8:35 PM, Masataka Ohta wrote: The problem is that the accuracy and integrity of DNSSEC is not cryptographically, but socially secure. DNS over UDP is prone to port/transaction-id guessing, where cryptography could play a protective role. The risk of these values bein

Re: DNSSEC is NOT secure end to end (more tutorial than debating)

2009-06-04 Thread Masataka Ohta
Andrew Sullivan wrote: >>Though we have to trust the zone administration put correct referral >>and glue data in a master zone file, unless we use DNSSEC, we don't >>have to trust the zone administration never issue certificates over >>forged keys of child zones. > If an attacker can get its bogu

Re: DNSSEC is NOT secure end to end

2009-06-04 Thread Masataka Ohta
Marc Manthey wrote: >> So, there is no point to deploy DNSSEC. > no ? No, no point. > http://jprs.co.jp/en/topics/081125.html FYI, JPRS, which is a commercial entity to administrate JP domain, is commercially motivated not to admit it merely an untrustworthy third party. In general, registrie

Gen-ART LC Review of draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-14

2009-06-04 Thread Ben Campbell
I have been selected as the General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviewer for this draft (for background on Gen-ART, please see http://www.alvestrand.no/ietf/gen/art/gen-art-FAQ.html). Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments you may receive. Document: draft-ietf-geopr

Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-opsawg-operations-and-management(Guidelines for Considering Operations and Management of NewProtocols and Protocol Extensions) to BCP

2009-06-04 Thread Joel M. Halpern
To put it differently, the OPS area has as much right to propose their requirements as any other area (Transport Congestion, Security, ...) has. And generally, the community has listened to such requests and gone along with them. Yes, we have produced a bit of a problem that our initial stand

Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-opsawg-operations-and-management(Guidelines for Considering Operations and Management of NewProtocols and Protocol Extensions) to BCP

2009-06-04 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Eric" == Eric Rosen writes: Eric> I don't see that OPSAWG has any business imposing Eric> requirements on work done by other WGs in other Areas. Obviously I agree with this statement. However I do believe that the ops area can propose and build consensus on requirements that we a

Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-opsawg-operations-and-management(Guidelines for Considering Operations and Management of NewProtocols and Protocol Extensions) to BCP

2009-06-04 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Eric" == Eric Rosen writes: Eric> If we are going to talk about adding new hoops for folks to Eric> jump through, we should first discuss whether any such hoops Eric> are necessary. We should not start the discussion by Eric> looking at the details of the particular propose

Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-opsawg-operations-and-management(Guidelines for Considering Operations and Management of NewProtocols and Protocol Extensions) to BCP

2009-06-04 Thread Eric Rosen
> This does not mean we have to simply accept what they (OPS) say. But it > does mean we should give it a fair review, looking at the details, > rather than objecting on principle. This is absolute nonsense. Most of the people actually doing work in the various areas do not have the time,

Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-opsawg-operations-and-management(Guidelines for Considering Operations and Management of NewProtocols and Protocol Extensions) to BCP

2009-06-04 Thread Andy Bierman
Joel M. Halpern wrote: To put it differently, the OPS area has as much right to propose their requirements as any other area (Transport Congestion, Security, ...) has. And generally, the community has listened to such requests and gone along with them. Yes, we have produced a bit of a proble

Call for Participation: "homegate" List

2009-06-04 Thread Livingood, Jason
This is an open call for participation in the new ³homegate² mailing list, which is dedicated to discussing issues relating to broadband home gateway devices. There has been a BoF request submitted relating to this, which you can find at http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/attachment/wiki/WikiSta

Re: [OPSAWG] Last Call: draft-ietf-opsawg-operations-and-management (Guidelines for Considering Operations and Management of New Protocols and Protocol Extensions) to BCP

2009-06-04 Thread Randy Presuhn
Hi - > From: "Eliot Lear" > To: "Sam Hartman" > Cc: ; > Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:15 PM > Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Last Call: draft-ietf-opsawg-operations-and-management > (Guidelines for Considering Operations and Management of New Protocols and Protocol Extensions) to BCP ... > Also, I

Re: DNSSEC is NOT secure end to end

2009-06-04 Thread Marc Manthey
So, there is no point to deploy DNSSEC. no ? http://jprs.co.jp/en/topics/081125.html regards Marc -- Les enfants teribbles - research / deployment Marc Manthey Vogelsangerstrasse 97 D - 50823 Köln - Germany Vogelsangerstrasse 97 Geo: 50.945554, 6.920293 PGP/GnuPG: 0x1ac02f3296b12b4d Te

Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-opsawg-operations-and-management(Guidelines for Considering Operations and Management of NewProtocols and Protocol Extensions) to BCP

2009-06-04 Thread Eric Rosen
Adopting this document as a BCP would be a serious mistake, and I hope it will be strongly opposed. There is absolutely no evidence that following the dictates of this document will improve the quality of the IETF's work, and we certainly know it won't improve the timeliness. There is no evid

Re: Gen-ART review of draft-ietf-geopriv-lbyr-requirements-07

2009-06-04 Thread Cullen Jennings
Thanks for review ... just wanted to respond to one point in this. On Jun 3, 2009, at 4:47 PM, Spencer Dawkins wrote: C5. User Identity Protection: The location URI MUST NOT contain information that identifies the user or device. Examples include phone extensions, badge numbers, fir

Re: DNSSEC is NOT secure end to end (more tutorial than debating)

2009-06-04 Thread Andrew Sullivan
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 03:27:42PM +0900, Masataka Ohta wrote: > Though we have to trust the zone administration put correct referral > and glue data in a master zone file, unless we use DNSSEC, we don't > have to trust the zone administration never issue certificates over > forged keys of child z

Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-opsawg-operations-and-management(Guidelines for Considering Operations and Management of NewProtocols and Protocol Extensions) to BCP

2009-06-04 Thread Eliot Lear
[this one more publicly] Dan, Based on the goals you set out below, I would argue that the document is too long. I would recommend sticking with principles and calling out a few examples. I think this is done reasonably well in Section 2, and less so elsewhere. I would also suggest that y

Re: DNS Additional Section Processing Globally Wrong

2009-06-04 Thread Masataka Ohta
Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote: > Glue data, additional and non-authoritative by design, intent and > specification, aren't what I want caches to keep. You had better cache glue As, as long as they are tagged as glue As with a domain name of query. Then, the cached information may be used as glue

Re: Last Call: draft-dawkins-nomcom-dont-wait (Nominating Committee Process: Earlier Announcement of Open Positions and Solicitation of Volunteers) to BCP

2009-06-04 Thread Pekka Savola
On Wed, 27 May 2009, The IESG wrote: - 'Nominating Committee Process: Earlier Announcement of Open Positions and Solicitation of Volunteers' as a BCP I have two issues with this. 1) This places a new responsibility at the feet of IETF secretariat. That's a new actor (not even a perso

RE: Last Call: draft-ietf-opsawg-operations-and-management(Guidelines for Considering Operations and Management of NewProtocols and Protocol Extensions) to BCP

2009-06-04 Thread Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
Hi Sam, A clarification and a clarification question in-line. Dan > -Original Message- > From: Sam Hartman [mailto:hartmans-i...@mit.edu] > Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:23 PM > To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) > Cc: Sam Hartman; ietf@ietf.org; ops...@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Last Call: > d

Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-opsawg-operations-and-management(Guidelines for Considering Operations and Management of NewProtocols and Protocol Extensions) to BCP

2009-06-04 Thread Sam Hartman
> "Dan" == Romascanu, Dan (Dan) writes: Dan> Sam, Thank you for your review and opinions. Dan> I would like to remind you and let many people that are not Dan> aware about the history of the document know one fact that Dan> may be important. This document is an outcome of the

Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-opsawg-operations-and-management (Guidelinesfor Considering Operations and Management of New Protocols and ProtocolExtensions) to BCP

2009-06-04 Thread Adrian Farrel
In the discussion of IETF consensus of this document and its position as a BCP or otherwise, can I throw into the melting pot draft-ietf-pce-manageability-requirements-06.txt This particular I-D was developed within the PCE working group to apply only in that working group. It covers similar t

RE: Last Call: draft-ietf-opsawg-operations-and-management(Guidelines for Considering Operations and Management of NewProtocols and Protocol Extensions) to BCP

2009-06-04 Thread Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
Sam, Thank you for your review and opinions. I would like to remind you and let many people that are not aware about the history of the document know one fact that may be important. This document is an outcome of the discussions hold at the IESG retreat in May 2006. I was then the 'fresh' AD bri