Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

Russ Housley wrote: Some suggestions have been made about the IETF mail lists. There is a way for mailman to strip attachments and put them in a place for downloading with a web browser. This would be a significant change to current practice, so the community needs to consider this potential pol

Weekly posting summary for ietf@ietf.org

Total of 106 messages in the last 7 days. script run at: Fri Mar 16 00:53:02 EDT 2012 Messages | Bytes| Who +--++--+ 4.72% |5 | 8.31% |68699 | nurit.sprec...@nsn.com 4.72% |5 | 4.67% |38596 | ned+i...@m

Re: SIDR WG Virtual Interim Meeting, March 24, 2012

Is this date right? The SIDR working group has decided to hold a virtual interim meeting the day before the IETF, when it is holding a working group meeting four days later on the 28th? And it is announcing this 9 days before the event? If this date is correct, this seems to violate both the sum

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

Since the problem is a relative handful of large attachments, could a solution just be to provide a repository for mailing list members to store such files, yielding a URL they could use in an email ? Then, the usual list feedback would keep the attachment sizes manageable. (*mumble*) Folks, le

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

Since the problem is a relative handful of large attachments, could a solution just be to provide a repository for mailing list members to store such files, yielding a URL they could use in an email ? Then, the usual list feedback would keep the attachment sizes manageable. Obviously, there would

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

On 3/15/12 1:40 PM, Pete Resnick wrote: On 3/15/12 1:38 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: we have just entered the RFI stage. I see that as progress. For draft-sparks-genarea-imaparch, or just draft-sparks-genarea-mailarch? Nevermind. I am told it is for the latter. The former is being handled separ

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

On 3/15/12 1:38 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: we have just entered the RFI stage. I see that as progress. For draft-sparks-genarea-imaparch, or just draft-sparks-genarea-mailarch? pr -- Pete Resnick Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

On 3/15/2012 8:49 AM, Pete Resnick wrote: There has been a discussion under way for some time to get that to happen. I believe RFP's are being thought about (or written). we have just entered the RFI stage. I see that as progress. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.

RE: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

John, I agree completely with everything you say here. Ned > --On Thursday, March 15, 2012 08:16 -0700 Ned Freed > wrote: > >... > >> > It might be okay for really large attachments, as long as > >> > only a few messages are affected. > > > >> Borrowing a bit fro

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

The current plan is to investigate both a web based archive access mechanism and an IMAP based one. I split the requirements for them into two drafts so the projects could be pursued separately. See also On 3/15/12 12:57 PM,

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

> "Cyrus" == Cyrus Daboo writes: Cyrus> Along those lines how about setting up an IETF IMAP server Cyrus> with mailboxes for each mailing list hosted by the IETF? That Cyrus> way anyone with a capable IMAP client (one that can How about we use the protocol that was designed for

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

> > > > > Is this really a big enough problem to be worth solving? I can't > > > > > recall a single instance where I received IETF list with a problematic > > > > > attachment. > > > > i travel to places with very poor bandwidth. it is a problem. > > > > and the vast majority of users just do n

RE: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

--On Thursday, March 15, 2012 08:16 -0700 Ned Freed wrote: >... >> > It might be okay for really large attachments, as long as >> > only a few messages are affected. > >> Borrowing a bit from Randy, the solution to really large >> attachments is to ban them. Personally, I'd find it perfectly

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

Hi Pete, --On March 15, 2012 10:49:25 AM -0500 Pete Resnick wrote: Along those lines how about setting up an IETF IMAP server with mailboxes for each mailing list hosted by the IETF? There has been a discussion under way for some time to get that to happen. I believe RFP's are being though

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

On 3/15/2012 10:41 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote: (This whole discussion is so typical of the IETF: what should be a 30-second exercise for one person to deal with in a simple, obvious way turns into a multi-day discussion in which some try to redesign entire email systems.) Noel, We have a signif

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

> "Russ" == Russ Housley writes: Russ> Some suggestions have been made about the IETF mail lists. Russ> There is a way for mailman to strip attachments and put them Russ> in a place for downloading with a web browser. This would be Russ> a significant change to current practi

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

> From: Russ Housley > There is no option in Mailman to specify attachment-stripping by > user, only by list. So? Have 'ietf@ietf.org' send a copy to to a new list, 'ietf-strippedietf.org' (the latter being set in Mailman to strip), and those who prefer their IETF email without inclu

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

> > > > Is this really a big enough problem to be worth solving? I can't > > > > recall a single instance where I received IETF list with a problematic > > > > attachment. > > > i travel to places with very poor bandwidth. it is a problem. > > > and the vast majority of users just do not get it.

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

for who has problem in attachment downloading the solution should be at the delivery Message Store level, where the strip of the attachment could be done accordingly to an user configurable mailbox parameter (as we do on our server, where we call it Easy Delivery). There

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

On 3/15/12 8:41 AM, Cyrus Daboo wrote: Along those lines how about setting up an IETF IMAP server with mailboxes for each mailing list hosted by the IETF? There has been a discussion under way for some time to get that to happen. I believe RFP's are being thought about (or written). pr --

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 09:47:57AM -0400, John C Klensin wrote: > Borrowing a bit from Randy, the solution to really large > attachments is to ban them. Personally, I'd find it perfectly > reasonable to have any message in the megabyte range or above > (or probably even an order of magnitude small

Re: [lisp] WG Review: Recharter of Locator/ID Separation Protocol (lisp)

Barry, On Mar 14, 2012, at 11:02 AM, Barry Leiba wrote: Relevant? Yes. Gating? No. In fact, I would put it the other way around. The architecture documentis very useful, almost necessary, for deciding whether the solution is a good one. The cache management evaluations are another component of

RE: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

> --On Thursday, March 15, 2012 00:00 -0400 Ross Callon > wrote: > > I don't like this proposal for two reasons: I frequently read > > email while not connected; When connected, bandwidths have > > gotten high enough that attachments on the most part are not > > slowing things down in an uncomf

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 08:03:50AM -0700, ned+i...@mauve.mrochek.com wrote: > > Or better still, don't strip anything. Use a reasonably capable client and > that doesn't fetch attachments unless you tell it to. Yes. What problem is this proposal to do anything about attachments trying to solve?

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 03/15/2012 07:43 AM, Lixia Zhang wrote: > > On Mar 15, 2012, at 6:47 AM, John C Klensin wrote: > >> >> >> --On Thursday, March 15, 2012 00:00 -0400 Ross Callon >> wrote: >> >>> I don't like this proposal for two reasons: I frequently read e

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

> > > Is this really a big enough problem to be worth solving? I can't > > > recall a single instance where I received IETF list with a problematic > > > attachment. > > i travel to places with very poor bandwidth. it is a problem. > > and the vast majority of users just do not get it. "we send

Re: IETF Mail Archive Tools RFI

Yes. This is used for mail lists associated with bids for the IETF. We wanted to make sure that no IETF vendor was able to see these messages, such as the one that operates the servers for ietf.org. Russ On Mar 15, 2012, at 10:50 AM, SM wrote: > Is ietf-bids.org an IETF domain name?

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Lixia Zhang wrote: > > On Mar 15, 2012, at 6:47 AM, John C Klensin wrote: > >> >> >> --On Thursday, March 15, 2012 00:00 -0400 Ross Callon >> wrote: >> >>> I don't like this proposal for two reasons: I frequently read >>> email while not connected; When connected,

Re: IETF Mail Archive Tools RFI

At 21:43 12-03-2012, Ray Pelletier wrote: Expressions of interest from potential bidders and all SOW comments are due by 16 April 2012 and should be submitted to maila...@ietf-bids.org. See the RFI for more details. Domain Name:IETF-BIDS.ORG Created On:06-Mar-2012 22:09:29 UTC Registrant Name

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

On Mar 15, 2012, at 6:47 AM, John C Klensin wrote: > > > --On Thursday, March 15, 2012 00:00 -0400 Ross Callon > wrote: > >> I don't like this proposal for two reasons: I frequently read >> email while not connected; When connected, bandwidths have >> gotten high enough that attachments on th

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

--On Thursday, March 15, 2012 09:41 -0400 Cyrus Daboo wrote: >... > Along those lines how about setting up an IETF IMAP server > with mailboxes for each mailing list hosted by the IETF? That > way anyone with a capable IMAP client (one that can separately > download text and attachments as pref

RE: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

--On Thursday, March 15, 2012 00:00 -0400 Ross Callon wrote: > I don't like this proposal for two reasons: I frequently read > email while not connected; When connected, bandwidths have > gotten high enough that attachments on the most part are not > slowing things down in an uncomfortable way.

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

On Thu Mar 15 01:28:00 2012, Brian E Carpenter wrote: On 2012-03-15 13:33, ned+i...@mauve.mrochek.com wrote: ... > I suppose I could live with this - but not actively support it - if the > stripping was limited to abusively large attachments - say ones over 5Mb or > thereabouts. +0.9; maybe

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

Hi, --On March 14, 2012 11:48:08 PM -0400 John C Klensin wrote: Let me add to the reasons the observation that there are still some of us who read IETF mailing lists on airplanes or in other environments with limited, expensive, or zero connectivity. If everything is in the email message th

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

On 3/14/2012 4:46 PM, Russ Housley wrote: Some suggestions have been made about the IETF mail lists. There is a way for mailman to strip attachments and put them in a place for downloading with a web browser. This would be a significant change to current practice, so the community needs to con

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

> "Russ" == Russ Housley writes: Russ> Some suggestions have been made about the IETF mail lists. Russ> There is a way for mailman to strip attachments and put them Russ> in a place for downloading with a web browser. This would be Russ> a significant change to current practi

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

> "ned" == ned writes: ned> Is this really a big enough problem to be worth solving? I ned> can't recall a single instance where I received IETF list with ned> a problematic attachment. OTOH, I routinely get IETF messages ned> with useful attachements - typically a critical r

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

+1 on having two options, by some means. Having a low bandwidth distribution of text only is a very good idea, but there are more people who want attachments intact, and problems in having the stripped version be the archive version. If it's too difficult to provide an option, I apologize to Rand

Re: [83attendees] Usual recreational venue diatribe (was Ground transportation from/to CDG)

On 15 Mar 2012, at 11:47 , Shane Kerr wrote: > Yet we know based on country attendance statistics that people attend > meetings in their region much more than where they have to travel a > great distance. So even if cost is not a huge factor, SOMETHING is. Not everyone goes to every meeting. Obvi

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

It will be more work, but going to mixed connectivity solution addresses the old, current and new. Going online will serve better the rebirth on online connectivity, mixed bandwidths and smaller devices. Using forums via web, newsgroups with email components has long been part of the RFC-base

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Francesco Gennai wrote: >> > Is this really a big enough problem to be worth solving? I can't >> > recall a single instance where I received IETF list with a problematic >> > attachment. > >> i travel to places with very poor bandwidth.  it is a problem. > >> and t

New ITS email list for discussing IPv6 and vehicular communications

Dear participants at IETF, A new email list ITS Intelligent Transportation Systems has been set up at IETF. It is intended for discussions of IP and vehicular communications. https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its Let us meet in Paris about this as well (details to follow). Alex

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

> > Is this really a big enough problem to be worth solving? I can't > > recall a single instance where I received IETF list with a problematic > > attachment. > i travel to places with very poor bandwidth. it is a problem. > and the vast majority of users just do not get it. "we send 20mb > do

Re: Issues relating to managing a mailing list...

Hi Russ, On 3/15/12 12:46 AM, Russ Housley wrote: > Some suggestions have been made about the IETF mail lists. > There is a way for mailman to strip attachments and put them > in a place for downloading with a web browser. This would be > a significant change to current practice, so the community