On Mar 11, 2013, at 6:54 PM, Dan Harkins wrote:
> In other words, the statement that gender and racial diversity in
> groups makes them "smarter" has no basis in fact. Do you feel that
> an all-female group is stupider than a similarly sized group that is
> equal parts male and female? Really?
Dear all,
the full recording (synchronized video, audio, slides and jabber room) of the
TECH PLENARY WG session at IETF 86 is available at the following URL:
http://ietf86.conf.meetecho.com/index.php/Recorded_Sessions#IETF86_TECH_PLENARY
In case of problems with the playout, just drop an e-mail
Michael,
a Bar BOF is an discussion among interested people that is open for others.
Since we like transparency and openness we invite others to join these
discussions.
Would you rather like to have meetings where you are not invited?
Ciao
Hannes
PS: Discussions in a bar are great if you c
OK, I'll bite.
I would by no means use the word "stupider", but I do think that a
group of females and males would take better decisions that a group of
only-males or only-females.
/as
On 11/03/2013 18:54, Dan Harkins wrote:
> In other words, the statement that gender and racial
The number of side meetings is simply overwhelming.
I would like to propose either repealing the "2 BOF" rule, or reminding
ADs that they can authorize more than 2 BOFs, and they should do that.
If we have time/place and people have free cycles for these side
meetings, etc. can we just put them
On Mon, March 11, 2013 1:39 pm, Rhys Smith wrote:
> On 11 Mar 2013, at 16:02, Dan Harkins wrote:
>
>>>- It is a well-established fact that diverse groups are smarter
>>> and make better decisions than less-diverse groups.
>>
>> I would really like to see this statement either backed up
> From: Scott Brim
>
> On 03/11/13 14:41, Mary Barnes allegedly wrote:
> > This year's set of nominees was far more diverse than in the past and
> > yet the IESG will still be entirely male and entirely North
> > American/European. Of course, only people that bothered to use the
> > tool to inpu
At 1:43 PM -0400 3/11/13, Arturo Servin wrote:
My opinion is that we agree we have a situation that we should improve,
but also we shouldn't focus on the nomcom process, the problem is not
about how we select people (it may help but it is not the root problem).
The problem is to bring
At 9:32 AM -0800 3/11/13, Melinda Shore wrote:
notably lacking among the
leadership are people who don't work for large manufacturers
and people who have first-hand knowledge of network
architectures and management practices in non-western
countries. I think that makes us weaker.
So what
At 4:41 PM + 3/11/13, Fred Baker (fred) wrote:
If you want to encourage the noncom to consider diversity in its
deliberations, fine.
If the nomcom itself is diverse, this should help with some forms of
selection bias. But, as several people have noted, if we grow the
IETF pool as a who
On 11 Mar 2013, at 16:02, Dan Harkins wrote:
>>- It is a well-established fact that diverse groups are smarter
>> and make better decisions than less-diverse groups.
>
> I would really like to see this statement either backed up by
> peer-reviewed apolitical scientific research or with
On 3/11/2013 3:03 PM, Mary Barnes wrote:
yes women are more likely to shed
tears when we are upset than to yell or curse or physically push
someone around (which I have been at these meetings)
I was on the Nomcom that Mary chaired. Nomcom's internal activities are
confidential.
In spite o
> In addition to the moral and social issues involved, diversity of
> leadership across several axes (race, geographic location, gender
> and corporate affiliation) is important for three practical reasons:
>
> - It is a well-established fact that diverse groups are smarter
> and make be
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 2:30 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote:
> A person's sex is of course only one of the recognized "protected
> characteristics".
>
> http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/advice-and-guidance/new-equality-act-guidance/protected-characteristics-definitions/
>
> The full set is:
>
> Age
>
Ted,
> Efforts to increase to diversity are a very different optimization--by
> making more visible that opportunities are present for all, these
> initiatives attempt to increase the pool of talent over time.
Thanks for your thoughts. I thought the above was an important observation.
Jari
ISOC is doing a great job with the fellowship program. There is just a
few people each meeting but it is a good start.
Now, we need to figure out how to bring more people and prepare them to
write RFCs and being leaders.
Not easy at all as Keith said.
Regards,
as
A person's sex is of course only one of the recognized "protected
characteristics".
*http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/advice-and-guidance/new-equality-act-guidance/protected-characteristics-definitions/*
The full set is:
Age
Disability
Gender ressignment
Marriage and civil partnetship
Pregna
On 03/11/13 15:03, Mary Barnes allegedly wrote:
> [MB] ... What I'm looking for is for IETF to recognize
> that there may be a bias in how these decisions are made and to make a
> conscientious decision to be aware of how this bias may impact their
> decisions.
Sounds good. +1. Thanks.
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Scott Brim wrote:
> On 03/11/13 14:41, Mary Barnes allegedly wrote:
>> This year's set of nominees was far more diverse than in the past and
>> yet the IESG will still be entirely male and entirely North
>> American/European. Of course, only people that bothered t
I signed the letter and my answers to your questions are below [MB].
I would posit that a number of others have answers not unlike my own.
Mary.
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Michael StJohns wrote:
> I'm not sure I have enough data to evaluate the comments in this letter. I
> don't disagree
On 03/11/13 14:41, Mary Barnes allegedly wrote:
> This year's set of nominees was far more diverse than in the past and
> yet the IESG will still be entirely male and entirely North
> American/European. Of course, only people that bothered to use the
> tool to input comments would see that. So, i
Hi Melinda,
I certainly agree that there are challenges in getting those who work for
smaller companies to participate in the IETF (for known reasons). I believe the
IETF, however, does better than other organizations that have expensive
membership fees.
The country/regional participation is
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Arturo Servin wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have been reading the comments in the list and although I am not
> making a specific reply to any message I would like to make some comments.
>
> So far I have read "I agree we need some diversity" or "I agree that
On 3/11/2013 1:03 PM, Keith Moore wrote:
On 03/11/2013 01:43 PM, Arturo Servin wrote:
My opinion is that we agree we have a situation that we should
improve,
but also we shouldn't focus on the nomcom process, the problem is not
about how we select people (it may help but it is not the root p
On Mar 10, 2013, at 1:57 PM, Spencer Dawkins wrote:
> On 3/10/2013 5:22 AM, IETF Diversity wrote:
>
> I'm listed as a signatory and agree that this is important.
>
>> There are several steps that could be taken, in the short-term within
>> our existing BCPs, to address this problem:
>>
>>
>> My opinion is that we agree we have a situation that we should improve,
>> but also we shouldn't focus on the nomcom process, the problem is not
>> about how we select people (it may help but it is not the root problem).
>> The problem is to bring new people (younger people, women, from m
>> 8.10 Hotel Booked Beyond 100% Capacity. Hotel agrees not to
>> relocate any conference attendee holding a guaranteed
>> reservation only after it has relocated any other guests
>> required to be relocated.
>
>I tried reading the sentence above several times and have
>concluded it isn't me --
On 03/11/2013 01:43 PM, Arturo Servin wrote:
My opinion is that we agree we have a situation that we should improve,
but also we shouldn't focus on the nomcom process, the problem is not
about how we select people (it may help but it is not the root problem).
The problem is to bring new p
On Mar 11, 2013, at 1:43 PM, Arturo Servin
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have been reading the comments in the list and although I am not
> making a specific reply to any message I would like to make some comments.
>
> So far I have read "I agree we need some diversity" or "I agree that
> mo
I'd agree to the more general statement that people from large commercial
organisations are dominating, and I'd argue that this is due to the cost
(in time and finanically) of doing reasonably high level IETF work. This
also restricts the available pool, and furthermore means our leadership is
at m
Le 2013-03-11 à 13:43, Arturo Servin a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> I have been reading the comments in the list and although I am not
> making a specific reply to any message I would like to make some comments.
>
> So far I have read "I agree we need some diversity" or "I agree that
> more d
This is a great suggestion.
Bonnie L. Gorsic
-Original Message-
From: ietf-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Arturo
Servin
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 10:43 AM
To: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership
Hi,
I have been reading the
Hi,
I have been reading the comments in the list and although I am not
making a specific reply to any message I would like to make some comments.
So far I have read "I agree we need some diversity" or "I agree that
more diversity is better". Also I have read "Please no quotas", "d
On 3/11/2013 9:23 AM, Ted Hardie wrote:
> So, I said this once before on a previous thread, but I still believe that
> this analysis is wrong. From an organiational perspective, the aim of
> fostering
> diversity isn't "political correctness", it's enabling a larger pool
> of candidates.
I tend
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Fred Baker (fred) wrote:>
> Yes, diversity is a good thing, and I'm all for it. However, I don't think it
> is a
> fundamental goal; the fundamental goal is (as Jari said) to get the best
> people for the job from the available talent pool. I don't know that
> po
On 3/11/2013 11:41 AM, Fred Baker (fred) wrote:
On Mar 10, 2013, at 1:57 PM, Spencer Dawkins wrote:
On 3/10/2013 5:22 AM, IETF Diversity wrote:
I'm listed as a signatory and agree that this is important.
There are several steps that could be taken, in the short-term within
our existing BCP
Le 2013-03-11 à 12:41, "Fred Baker (fred)" a écrit :
>
> On Mar 10, 2013, at 1:57 PM, Spencer Dawkins
> wrote:
>
>> On 3/10/2013 5:22 AM, IETF Diversity wrote:
>>
>> I'm listed as a signatory and agree that this is important.
>>
>>> There are several steps that could be taken, in the short
On Mar 10, 2013, at 1:57 PM, Spencer Dawkins wrote:
> On 3/10/2013 5:22 AM, IETF Diversity wrote:
>
> I'm listed as a signatory and agree that this is important.
>
>> There are several steps that could be taken, in the short-term within
>> our existing BCPs, to address this problem:
>>
>>
I'm not sure I have enough data to evaluate the comments in this letter. I
don't disagree with the general goal "diversity is good". I do believe that
the proposed actions are not realistic in that they would tend to make the
Nomcom process even more moribund. I will note that Appendix A sugg
Dear Peter,
Many thanks for the review.
A new version with your suggested changes is now online. See the diff available
here:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-intarea-nat-reveal-analysis-06.
This version includes also the comments raised by SM here:
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archiv
At 8:29 PM +0100 3/10/13, Harald Alvestrand wrote:
On 03/10/2013 09:08 PM, Randall Gellens wrote:
At 6:16 PM + 3/10/13, Keith (Keith) DRAGE wrote:
My understanding was that the idea was to label a particular
media stream, rather than (for example) a SIP body.
Different media strea
On 03/10/2013 09:08 PM, Randall Gellens wrote:
At 6:16 PM + 3/10/13, Keith (Keith) DRAGE wrote:
My understanding was that the idea was to label a particular media
stream, rather than (for example) a SIP body.
Different media streams could have different labels.
Keith is right. As an
At 6:16 PM + 3/10/13, Keith (Keith) DRAGE wrote:
My understanding was that the idea was to label a particular media
stream, rather than (for example) a SIP body.
Different media streams could have different labels.
Keith is right. As an example, SIP might be used to setup a call
with
My understanding was that the idea was to label a particular media stream,
rather than (for example) a SIP body.
Different media streams could have different labels.
Keith
> -Original Message-
> From: mmusic-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:mmusic-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of Harald Alvestr
Ray,
(moving this to IETF list because it raises issues more general
that one screwup with one hotel.
Below...
--On Monday, 11 March, 2013 08:49 -0400 Ray Pelletier
wrote:
> All
>
> Hotels overbook. It's an unfortunate fact of the industry.
For the same reason that tolerating a certain amo
On Mar 10, 2013, at 10:20 PM, S Moonesamy wrote:
>
> Diversity of IETF Leadership begins at the bottom. It is challenging for
> reasons which I unfortunately cannot describe. I am supportive of the
> effort. I am not comfortable with quotas. My preference is to see that the
> IETF is acce
On 11/03/2013 02:47, Randall Gellens wrote:
> At 2:45 PM -0800 3/10/13, Melinda Shore wrote:
>
>> And I'll go on record requesting that folks think
>> pretty carefully before saying that including something
>> other than white western guys means lowering standards.
>
> I don't think anyone has
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