Re: Appeal Response to Abdussalam Baryun regarding draft-ietf-manet-nhdp-sec-threats

2013-07-03 Thread William McCall
On 07/02/2013 07:19 PM, Randy Bush wrote: If I knew that 97% of appeals get rejected, I wouldn't even bother writing one... i have never considered writng one. sour grapes make bad wine. randy I used to read the appeals for my own education. Some pretty hilarious stuff in there. I feel this c

Re: Appeal Response to Abdussalam Baryun regarding draft-ietf-manet-nhdp-sec-threats

2013-07-03 Thread Pete Resnick
On 7/2/13 6:37 PM, l.w...@surrey.ac.uk wrote: Do we have any statistics on how many appeals to the IESG fail and how many succeed? My quick read of http://www.ietf.org/iesg/appeal.html: Accepted: 6 Denied: 25 Withdrawn: 1 One appellant appealed 12 times and all of the appeals were denied

Re: Appeal Response to Abdussalam Baryun regarding draft-ietf-manet-nhdp-sec-threats

2013-07-03 Thread Toerless Eckert
Jari, *: Disclaimer: see signature (i do not know the details of this specific case). To me the problem seems to be going back to the means the IETF has for providing recognition to participants contributing by review/feedback. As long as recognition for that contribution is primarily left to t

Re: [IETF] Re: Appeal Response to Abdussalam Baryun regarding draft-ietf-manet-nhdp-sec-threats

2013-07-03 Thread Warren Kumari
On Jul 3, 2013, at 12:32 PM, Pete Resnick wrote: > On 7/2/13 6:37 PM, l.w...@surrey.ac.uk wrote: >> Do we have any statistics on how many appeals to the IESG fail and how many >> succeed? >> > > My quick read of http://www.ietf.org/iesg/appeal.html: > > Accepted: 6 > Denied: 25 > Withdrawn:

Fwd: Doug Engelbart

2013-07-03 Thread Dave Crocker
From: Christina Engelbart > Date: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 6:31 AM Subject: update on my father Very sorry to inform my father passed away in his sleep peacefully at home last night. His health had been deteriorating of late, and took turn for worse on the

Re: [IETF] Re: Appeal Response to Abdussalam Baryun regarding draft-ietf-manet-nhdp-sec-threats

2013-07-03 Thread John C Klensin
--On Wednesday, July 03, 2013 13:02 -0400 Warren Kumari wrote: > Thank you -- another worthwhile thing to do is look at who all > has appealed and ask yourself "Do I really want to be part of > this club?" I am honored to be a member of that club. Remembering that appeals, as others have poi

Call for Comment on draft-iab-anycast-arch-implications-09 on "Architectural Considerations of IP Anycast"

2013-07-03 Thread IAB Chair
This is an announcement of an IETF-wide Call for Comment on "Architectural Considerations of IP Anycast" (draft-iab-anycast-arch-implications-09). The document is being considered for publication as an Informational RFC within the IAB stream, and is available for inspection here: https://datat

Re: Appeal Response to Abdussalam Baryun regarding draft-ietf-manet-nhdp-sec-threats

2013-07-03 Thread Dave Crocker
On 7/3/2013 9:32 AM, Pete Resnick wrote: Interpret the above as you see fit. As with most 'social' analyses, it's usually a good idea to look for a bit more than an entirely trivial numbers game, such as by trying to find some criterion that helps to distinguish amongst the appellants. In

Re: [IETF] Re: Appeal Response to Abdussalam Baryun regarding draft-ietf-manet-nhdp-sec-threats

2013-07-03 Thread Sam Hartman
> "John" == John C Klensin writes: Strong agreement. I'm not currently a member of that club, although if I stick around the IETF long enough it's bound to happen. I've certainly received and reviewed appeals that I thought were a valid contribution to the process. Don't appeal if there is

Re: Appeal Response to [removed] regarding draft-ietf-manet-nhdp-sec-threats

2013-07-03 Thread SM
At 03:39 03-07-2013, William McCall wrote: I used to read the appeals for my own education. Some pretty hilarious stuff in there. I feel this contributor's frustration though (even though the IESG is right). The decision of the respected members of the IESG was predictable. There may be a mi

Re: Fwd: Doug Engelbart

2013-07-03 Thread Bob Braden
Wikipedia defines "genius" as "a person who displays exceptional intellectual ability, creativity, or originality" All three applied to Doug Engelbart. He belongs up there with other creative geniuses I have had the privilege of meeting during 50 years in computing -- Al Perlis, Dick Hammin

Re: Appeal Response to Abdussalam Baryun regarding draft-ietf-manet-nhdp-sec-threats

2013-07-03 Thread Ted Lemon
On Jul 3, 2013, at 2:18 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: > As with most 'social' analyses, it's usually a good idea to look for a bit > more than an entirely trivial numbers game, such as by trying to find some > criterion that helps to distinguish amongst the appellants. Yup. E.g., it's worth reading

Re: [IETF] Re: Appeal Response to Abdussalam Baryun regarding draft-ietf-manet-nhdp-sec-threats

2013-07-03 Thread Pete Resnick
On 7/3/13 1:10 PM, John C Klensin wrote: --On Wednesday, July 03, 2013 13:02 -0400 Warren Kumari wrote: Thank you -- another worthwhile thing to do is look at who all has appealed and ask yourself "Do I really want to be part of this club?" Other than a*very* small minority of well kno

Re: [IETF] Re: Appeal Response to Abdussalam Baryun regarding draft-ietf-manet-nhdp-sec-threats

2013-07-03 Thread Phillip Hallam-Baker
+1 And don't lets forget that plenty of people have proposed schemes that WGs have turned down and then been proven right years later. If people are just saying what everyone else is saying here then they are not adding any value. Rather too often WGs are started by folk seeking a mutual apprecia

Re: Appeal Response to [removed] regarding draft-ietf-manet-nhdp-sec-threats

2013-07-03 Thread Eliot Lear
No hat on and I'm not commenting on the specific case at hand. On the general point, I think it's better to err a bit toward the generous side. As an author I use as a rule of thumb whether or not I or the working group has taken someone's suggestion and put it into text. And it has to be more t

Re: Appeal Response to [removed] regarding draft-ietf-manet-nhdp-sec-threats

2013-07-03 Thread Michael StJohns
Before we go down this rathole too far again - 1) If you want to second guess the working group, AD and IESG, then the best approach is to probably review the bidding by reading the emails on the working group list and then forming an opinion based on that record. I have and I'm pretty content

IETF 87 Registration Suspended

2013-07-03 Thread IETF Administrative Director
Registration for IETF87 in Berlin has been suspended to consider the impact of a change in the VAT rules on Registration Fees. We expect registration to open as soon as this matter has been clarified. Ray IETF Administrative Director

Re: [IETF] Re: [IETF] Re: Appeal Response to Abdussalam Baryun regarding draft-ietf-manet-nhdp-sec-threats

2013-07-03 Thread Warren Kumari
On Jul 3, 2013, at 3:41 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > +1 > > And don't lets forget that plenty of people have proposed schemes that WGs > have turned down and then been proven right years later. > > If people are just saying what everyone else is saying here then they are not > adding a

Re: Doug Engelbart

2013-07-03 Thread Douglas Otis
On Jul 3, 2013, at 12:10 PM, Bob Braden wrote: > > Wikipedia defines "genius" as "a person who displays exceptional intellectual > ability, creativity, or originality" > All three applied to Doug Engelbart. He belongs up there with other creative > geniuses I have had the privilege of meetin

RE: [IETF] Re: [IETF] Re: Appeal Response to Abdussalam Baryun regarding draft-ietf-manet-nhdp-sec-threats

2013-07-03 Thread l.wood
> C: does my appeal look more like the club of 3, or the club of 11? I think there's a new club of one. Lloyd Wood http://sat-net.com/L.Wood/

Re: [IETF] Re: [IETF] Re: Appeal Response to Abdussalam Baryun regarding draft-ietf-manet-nhdp-sec-threats

2013-07-03 Thread Doug Barton
On 07/03/2013 05:20 PM, l.w...@surrey.ac.uk wrote: C: does my appeal look more like the club of 3, or the club of 11? I think there's a new club of one. Wait, so now instead of voting we're using clubs? I think I need to pay more attention to this thread ...

Re: [IETF] Re: [IETF] Re: Appeal Response to Abdussalam Baryun regarding draft-ietf-manet-nhdp-sec-threats

2013-07-03 Thread Dave Cridland
Yeah, but we don't actually count the clubs, so it's okay.

Re: IETF 87 Registration Suspended

2013-07-03 Thread Barry Leiba
> Registration for IETF87 in Berlin has been suspended to consider the impact > of a change in the VAT rules on Registration Fees. We expect registration > to open as soon as this matter has been clarified. I don't understand what the effect of VAT rules is on money collected in the U.S. in U.S.

Re: [IETF] [IETF] Re: Appeal Response to Abdussalam Baryun regarding draft-ietf-manet-nhdp-sec-threats

2013-07-03 Thread Ted Lemon
On Jul 3, 2013, at 8:33 PM, Doug Barton wrote: > Wait, so now instead of voting we're using clubs? I think I need to pay more > attention to this thread ... If you don't read ietf, you don't get to participate in the consensus... ;)

Re: IETF 87 Registration Suspended

2013-07-03 Thread Martin J. Dürst
Hello Barry, On 2013/07/04 9:39, Barry Leiba wrote: Registration for IETF87 in Berlin has been suspended to consider the impact of a change in the VAT rules on Registration Fees. We expect registration to open as soon as this matter has been clarified. I don't understand what the effect of VA