their body as a voting person.
And that's my thought at this moment...
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
the problem to the folks with the knowledge and incentives to work on it
and it takes this very expensive specification task out of the IETF's critical path.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https
Dave C's highlighting the possibility of an abstract API is also
worth considering.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
standards too, albeit ones developed
privately, with private review: Within a company it is typical to have the
mobile code and the server be implemented by different teams and they need to
code against a common spec, hence a protocol stanards...
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
and different part of the
architecture.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
On 3/29/2011 3:52 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
Sad news:
Indeed.
Katie Hafner (Where Wizards Stay Up Late) did a very nice obituary, also:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/28/technology/28baran.html?src=busln
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
or all of the limitations were universal, not
just about web apps.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
.
There are no changes proposed for moving to Historic. (The question of Historic
has not been part of the many discussions about streamlining the standards
labeling.)
Hence that issue is out of scope for the document.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
that doesn't make a very useful criterion. A more useful criterion would be
demonstrating that the confusion causes significant problems.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https
suggestion.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
of historic needs to be based on affirmative data. The declaration
is actually only important to make for protocols that are known to be problematic.
Issuing a declaration for mere non-use is a matter of convenience, not need,
IMO.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
of programming), of course.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
at
http://www.apps.ietf.org/rfc/index.html
Cool. Hadn't heard of that link before.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
%, now.
Pretty serious 'market' domination...
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
-60%?
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
On 1/30/2011 8:06 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 07:49:44AM -0800, Dave CROCKER wrote:
The current proposal specifies a second maturity level that does not
permit changing the technical specification.
Yes, I know. I fail completely to see why anyone would ever do
with the criterion you are citing.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
, of course. But there is nothing essential in having
the IETF mark completion of any of those intermediate phases.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo
sentence to cover interoperability about IPR:
+1
It's terse, relevant and seems pragmatic.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
On 12/31/2010 6:56 AM, Dave CROCKER wrote:
So I would like to ask for folks to help the community develop some concrete
information about this, by adding entries and comments to the IETF's Outcomes
Wiki:
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/misc/outcomes/[2]
...
Some infrastructure changes
to check: I assume you folk know about a somewhat related event that
overlaps with this, on Friday, in nearby Leipzig:
The Governance Dimension of the Internet of Things
http://www.medienstadt-leipzig.org/euronf/programme.html
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
On 1/10/2011 12:01 PM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote:
Yes, we know about this other workshop. We also checked how likely the
participants overlap.
ack. tnx.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf
pragmatic guidance to the community.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
in the table.
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
on this and the IETF track record has been
quite good.
We should share the joy.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
constraints
pertain only to standards track or should it apply to all RFCs? If the latter,
what does it mean to have a downref for a document that is not on standards track?
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing
-- is classic. The specifications seems well enough formed and detailed.
Please approve it.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
I left last Wednesday and the, visibility seemed to be about 200 yards. I was
told that it was worse on Thursday. I guess it was...
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=131440157
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-crocker-ietf-twostage-00
It even makes that clear in the I-D filename.
It's primary distinction is different criteria for the second step.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf
On 11/13/2010 7:49 AM, John C Klensin wrote:
At the end of an IETF week, I guess we are all
tired. Please note the comma and parse that as
Actually I think this was karmic retribution. I should have taken my own advice
and waited to get my coffee...
d/
--
Dave Crocker
:
The following individuals and/or organization
have stated that [...]:
Yes?
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
to enforce a rule negates the rule.
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
On 11/11/2010 7:10 PM, Russ Housley wrote:
I think it would be sufficient to say something like: The following
implementations represent a significant Internet deployment and they are
based on the specification in RFCn:
-a
-b
-c
- ...
wfm.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg
the observation that this was done without notice, for example.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
On 11/11/2010 10:17 PM, Henk Uijterwaal wrote:
On 11/11/2010 12:01, Dave CROCKER wrote:
It is a change in practice. It is not a change in formal requirement.
This has (always?) been an unenforced requirement.(*)
No, I've been refused entry to the terminal room at least once because I did
interoperability testing that is
limited to the specification.
The only role of the IETF in such a process is to aid in getting agreement on
any specification changes that might be needed, when the divergence is due to
/enhancements/ that are non-standard.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg
familiarity, in reality most of the 1200, or so, attendees are strangers to each
other. In most of the world, trusting 1200 strangers to keep one's property
safe is not especially rational.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf
to be enhanced to cover multiple implementations. And as
long as the language hood is up, we might as well put in a turbo-booster that
asserts the higher octane 'interoperability' word.
Does that cover your concern?
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
Folks,
On 11/11/2010 12:25 PM, Dave CROCKER wrote:
To establish the base: It is not possible to achieve widespread use on the
Internet without having multiple components interacting. That's called
interoperability.
However, the interoperability might be among components that are clones
Folks,
A few of us have formulated an alternative proposal for streamlining the IETF
standards process. We hope that it at least adds to the mix of discussion in
the community.
d/
Original Message
Subject: I-D Action:draft-crocker-ietf-twostage-00.txt
Date: Tue, 09 Nov
;
name=draft-crocker-ietf-twostage-00.txt
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename=draft-crocker-ietf-twostage-00.txt
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf
On 11/8/2010 6:07 PM, Bernard Aboba wrote:
Dave Crocker said:
1. Can you provide some rationale for the details of the experiment?b
2. Is one goal to maximize the attendance conflicts among BOFs?
1. In terms of rationale, I am reminded of Kinky Freedman's slogan, when
running for Governor
that the result is wrong. Worse, if you do not participate now,
you are probably increasing the likelihood that it will be wrong...
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman
whether you support this experiment.
1. Can you provide some rational for the details of the experiment?
2. Is one goal to maximize the attendance conflicts among BOFs?
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing
in a reasonable
way.
I believe that cross-area reviews largely satisfy that requirement. If
within-area reviews are also needed, the AD should commission them, not do them
directly.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing
. So, whole readable
thoughts, but not extended prose.
This also helps when the slides are circulated without the speaker...
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org
through the IETF process is very high overhead, including
Experimental.
2. Why does what you've suggested not qualify for the IRTF rather than the IETF?
Shouldn't a standards process be able to sit down and do a standard, rather
than iterate on experimental designs?
d/
--
Dave Crocker
On 10/28/2010 10:43 AM, Bob Braden wrote:
On 10/28/2010 10:29 AM, Dave CROCKER wrote:
1. Getting /any/ RFC through the IETF process is very high overhead,
including Experimental.
...
Excuse me, but just what do you mean by very high overhead?
Quite a lot of work, with unpredictable
] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawkins-newtrk-wgs-00
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
On 10/28/2010 11:45 AM, Dave CROCKER wrote:
On 10/28/2010 11:41 AM, Ted Hardie wrote:
I think that any review of our use of standards designations or
how they relate to formal process needs to have some consideration of
the I-D aspects
...
Since you raised this, I'll point to the proposal
statements seriously.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
://trac.tools.ietf.org/misc/outcomes/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
, and it is too much trouble to move multiple
drafts all at the same time.
This, at least, is a pragmatic point. I think there has been little effort to
evaluate it deeply. It might have some benefit; it might not. Where is the
archive of consideration?
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg
problem here is that that problem leads folk to ignore legitimate
criticism and to refuse any sort of comparative analysis of alternative
approaches to enhancement.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf
.
It is predicated on the belief that small address space is the only reason we
have NATs. There's plenty of evidence for additional reasons which IPv6 does
not eliminate.
Ergo, your listed major security advantage is on extremely soft ground, possibly
qualifying as quicksand...
d/
--
Dave
there is a similar option in Beijing
that is convenient to obtain.)
Suggestions?
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
to deliver. While it's never possible to ensure that this sort of
thing never happens, the v6 effort really did not work very hard at producing
and delivering a clear message of the problems it /would/ solve.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
, is that the failures here were ones of goals, priorities and
management, not technology. Quite simply, we did not pay attention to larger
issues such as market incentives and adoption barriers.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
hampered deployment of the stuff currently being discussed.
sounds about right to me.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
-sip-00
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
of life to you yet, so I thought it
worth pointing out.)
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
, we were already turning
down legitimate requests, such as from the electricity folks (EPRI). Instead we
chose to focus on global exhaustion rather than individual denial.
That was the real mistake. There really was urgency back then and we convinced
ourselves there wasn't.
d/
--
Dave
-sip-00
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
of life to you yet, so I thought it
worth pointing out.)
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
deployment time.
That is, there was an ingrained belief that this one be the last time that
things under the hood would get to be revised for many years. Hence the
belief that it was important to stuff in as many changes as possible...
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
, but can't imagine its being achieved.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
On 9/21/2010 5:02 PM, Bob Hinden wrote:
The list of accepted candidates should be posted on the IETF site like the
rest of the noncom information.
+1
On the other hand, the practical reality is that getting an IETF login is easy
enough to make this issue pretty minor, IMO.
d/
--
Dave
beyond the basic
use of IETF logins.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
be instantaneous.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
not
make it reasonable for 1000 attendees to rely on it.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
, was another as I recall.
d/
ps. There also were Arpanet folk who participated in creating X.400, but it
reflected essentially nothing from Arpanet/Internet mail.
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf
.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
On 9/14/2010 9:02 AM, Ole Jacobsen wrote:
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010, Dave CROCKER wrote:
Maastricht suffered an impressive variety of problems. Worse, some of those
problems have become a recurring pattern. As examples, we have had a
significant number of venues in recent years that were distant
that the IAOC does not really
understand the seriousness of the problems with some sites.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
for 1000
people, just to get to daily resources.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
suggest that they be moderated for tone.
+1.
Does that include expressions of irritation...?
People need to find a way to discuss
an issue without making statements about a person or set of persons.
+1
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
tasks; let's wait to impose stricter rules
until we see clear evidence they are needed.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
with /primarily/ face-to-face interactions.
Neither mode has a guaranteed outcome.
IMO, the tendency to move more towards doing work in f2f meetings seems
primarily to indicate a lack of urgency, process management and/or technical
focus, rather than on an actual need.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
stop calling for repair.
We would spend our time better by focusing on creating our own specifications
more efficiently and with better and quicker community uptake. Worrying about
non-IETF Informational IETFs distracts from that.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
important that we do it.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
to facts of life that some might like more than
other facts of life...
Register the damn thing. The registration form appears to satisfy registration
requirements.
If there are specific problems with the associated spec, pursue them
independently and concretely, please.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
this.
must be a form of schadenfreude...
d/
ps. in other words, -10.
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
of competition among potential meeting venues. While
changing hotels means learning its quirks, this is not the same as changing cities.
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org
that trend rather clearly.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
On 8/30/2010 10:53 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
On Aug 29, 2010, at 8:10 PM, Dave CROCKER wrote:
The premise to these anecdotes appears to be that IETF meetings are
designed for people who have:
* hefty corporate travel funding-- so money is largely no object
As someone who
an extension to related work: affective logic.
the result of a computation depends upon how you feel about it.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
which the Internet relied on the
original FTP-based mail commands. SMTP's primary enhancement was support for
multiple addressees per transaction. By and large, this improvement was
invisible to email users.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
assertions over the last 15
years, the justification has not withstood serious review, IMO.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
elitist demographic, particular for a community
that has been predicated on diversity and inclusiveness.
At the least, the IETF should be honest and re-cast its community culture as
being tailored for well-funded professional meeting goers...
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
Am I correctly reading that the overflow hotel for Beijing is approximately
eight (8) kilometers away from the primary hotel?
If so, why?
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https
at it in
different way. Is your push-back to Bob based on a review of that additional
discussion?
I'm asking because I took there to be a reasonable consensus from that that
1-1-1 made the most sense.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
are already recorded on the thread(s).
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
to defeat the substantial infrastructure of attack-tracking that is
address-based, such as for anti-spam.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
for work, writing code? The concern for business visas is that conduct
of these sorts of business activities. That is, commerce. Merely having
conversation that are work-related is not (really) conducting business.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
are so often pissed
off.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
On 8/16/2010 2:30 PM, Fred Baker wrote:
or http://www.pdphoto.org/PictureDetail.php?mat=pg=7634
Given that the pun is based on Vint's observing that we had IP running over
all sorts of different media, as I recall his comment was IP over Everything.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg
601 - 700 of 1843 matches
Mail list logo
