> From: Thomas Narten [nar...@us.ibm.com]
>
> If this conversation was about IETF culture, and how it's hard for
> non-Americans to participate "IETF style", I bet folk would much more
> quickly recognize some of the real issues.
Has there been any organized attempt to reduce the difficulty for
n
Culture plays a vital role in determining what one's options are, incuding
career options. When I was in high schoool I was good at maths and science.
After completing my O'levels, there was a general assumptions that I wold
take up Commercial/business subjects and when I opted for the science
sub
Note that mentor net that I mentioned in another email is also focused on
increasing minorities in engineering: http://www.mentornet.net/
They are always looking for new mentors:
http://www.mentornet.net/mentor.aspx
If your child doesn't seem to have the aptitude for engineering, then
certainly yo
Fred Baker wrote:
On Apr 30, 2012, at 5:03 PM, Ofer Inbar wrote:
This PBS interview with Harvey Mudd president Maria Klawe, on the
subject of why fewer women go into tech & engineering fields, is
worth watching:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/video/blog/2012/04/college_president_discusses_w
Here is a very timely article on this topic:
http://news.mentornet.net/content/why-getting-women-stem-matters
Note, this is from an organization that is focused on getting diversity in
engineering and science, so for those interested in more information on
this topic, there are many, many other ar
[RS> ] +1 This is not just something we should do, its something we have to
do. I know the AD's try and keep a strong hand in talent spotting among the
WG chairs on who might succeed them, but one thing I believe WG chairs need
to do is appoint WG Secretaries. I always did. Limit the number of WG'
Yoav Nir wrote on 05/01/2012 02:24:57 AM:
> From: Yoav Nir
> To: Janet P Gunn/USA/CSC@CSC
> Cc: Mary Barnes , "ietf-
> boun...@ietf.org" , IETF discussion list
>
> Date: 05/01/2012 02:26 AM
> Subject: Re: 'Geek' image scares women away from tech ind
On May 1, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Janet P Gunn wrote:
This is VERY narrow minded, and, to be honest, somewhat insulting.
You suggest that "time at work" and "family" are the only important things to
women.
I'm suggesting no such thing. This authors of this survey say that women who
left engineering
This is a complex topic and one where it's easy to be naive or even
dismissive if one hasn't experienced stuff themselves or worked with
people who have.
If this conversation was about IETF culture, and how it's hard for
non-Americans to participate "IETF style", I bet folk would much more
quickly
Hector wrote:
Monique Morrow wrote:
One of the points I discussed in NYC last week was also the role of media
and what is depicted in film, TV and so on wrt girls-women, a topic of
the
Miss Representation initiative:
http://www.missrepresentation.org/
Monique
My young artist daughter depic
This is VERY narrow minded, and, to be honest, somewhat insulting.
You suggest that "time at work" and "family" are the only important things
to women.
First off, "working too many hours", and "too much travel" are
considerably MORE onerous when you DON'T have a family to back you up -
especia
Monique Morrow wrote:
One of the points I discussed in NYC last week was also the role of media
and what is depicted in film, TV and so on wrt girls-women, a topic of the
Miss Representation initiative:
http://www.missrepresentation.org/
Monique
My young artist daughter depicted the woman dil
On 5/1/12 9:24 AM, John C Klensin wrote:
I'm pretty pessimistic about trying
to use the IETF to get ahead of the industrial / work
environment situation.
Me too, and I'm pretty sure that that's the real issue, anyway.
But still, I do think that if supporting diversity is a cultural
value at the
Fred Baker wrote:
On Apr 30, 2012, at 5:03 PM, Ofer Inbar wrote:
This PBS interview with Harvey Mudd president Maria Klawe, on the
subject of why fewer women go into tech & engineering fields, is
worth watching:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/video/blog/2012/04/college_president_discusses_w
--On Tuesday, May 01, 2012 09:55 -0400 Scott Brim
wrote:
>> "...lack of real or perceived opportunities for advancement,
>> and uncivil work environments where women were treated in
>> condescending or patronizing manners. Only 25 percent of the
>> women who left engineering did so for family r
On 5/1/12 8:12 AM, Yoav Nir wrote:
Well, it says this:
"The common perception is that women are leaving for taking care of
their families," says Fouad. "But that's clearly not true. They left the
profession for organizational culture reasons."
And then this:
Among the common factors that wom
Hi -
> From: "Yoav Nir"
> To: "Mary Barnes"
> Cc: "IETF-Discussion list"
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 9:12 AM
> Subject: Re: 'Geek' image scares women away from tech industry ? The Register
...
> IOW I don't see the difference b
On May 1, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Mary Barnes wrote:
The article clearly states that women leave for the two reasons you mentioned,
which are certainly the exact same things males deal with, but you missed a few
others that the article notes, specifically and directly quoted below:
"...lack of real
Mary Barnes
> > Sent by: ietf-boun...@ietf.org
> >
> > 04/30/2012 10:13 AM
> >
> > To
> >
> > Riccardo Bernardini
> >
> > cc
> >
> > IETF discussion list
> >
> > Subject
> >
> > Re: 'Geek'
One of the points I discussed in NYC last week was also the role of media
and what is depicted in film, TV and so on wrt girls-women, a topic of the
Miss Representation initiative:
http://www.missrepresentation.org/
Monique
On 5/1/12 6:45 AM, "Mary Barnes" wrote:
> The article clearly states
On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 09:45, Mary Barnes wrote:
> The article clearly states that women leave for the two reasons you
> mentioned, which are certainly the exact same things males deal with, but
> you missed a few others that the article notes, specifically and directly
> quoted below:
>
> "...lac
The article clearly states that women leave for the two reasons you
mentioned, which are certainly the exact same things males deal with, but
you missed a few others that the article notes, specifically and directly
quoted below:
"...lack of real or perceived opportunities for advancement, and unc
- Original Message -
From: "Huub van Helvoort"
To:
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 4:52 PM
Hi Dale,
You wondered:
>> and btw my motto:
>>
>> "geek c ést chic!"
>
> What responses do you receive to your motto?
That it is spelled wrong...
Sad, isn't it? All that effort on i18e and we s
> What if teachers were measured on a survey at the end of a semester or a year
> that asked "does teacher <> make <> interesting to you?".
Feynman recollected that when he returned from school his mother never asked
him if he answered the teacher's questions correctly,
rather if he asked any in
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 7:03 PM, Melinda Shore wrote:
> On 4/30/12 7:33 AM, Riccardo Bernardini wrote:
>>
>> So it seems (by this anecdotal and very limited evidence) that
>
>> [ ... ]
>
> So it seems to me that when in possession of only anecdotal,
> limited evidence that it might be a good idea
> In the countries with which you are most familiar, what answers do
> girls give you?
The responses vary from lack of encouragement; lack of role models; lack of
education-inspiring instructors;
"geek c ést chic! "
> What responses do you receive to your motto?
Very positive - my point is g
On Apr 30, 2012, at 10:52 PM, Mary Barnes wrote:
Here is an article that does a far better job of explaining the situation than
I did:
http://www.todaysengineer.org/2011/May/women-in-engineering.asp
The largest reason women leave engineering is due to the work environment and
perceived lack of
On May 1, 2012, at 12:31 AM, Janet P Gunn wrote:
My own anecdotes.
Yes, it starts early.
When I was 3 I announced that I was going to be a physicist when I grew up.
WHY?
1 - a physicist has a chair that is on WHEELS, and spins ROUND and ROUND
2 - a physicist has a blackboard with COLORED CH
On 05/01/2012 02:52 AM, Mary Barnes wrote:
Here is an article that does a far better job of explaining the
situation than I did:
http://www.todaysengineer.org/2011/May/women-in-engineering.asp
The largest reason women leave engineering is due to the work
environment and perceived lack of suppo
On Apr 30, 2012, at 5:03 PM, Ofer Inbar wrote:
> This PBS interview with Harvey Mudd president Maria Klawe, on the
> subject of why fewer women go into tech & engineering fields, is
> worth watching:
>
> http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/video/blog/2012/04/college_president_discusses_wo.html
Th
This PBS interview with Harvey Mudd president Maria Klawe, on the
subject of why fewer women go into tech & engineering fields, is
worth watching:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/video/blog/2012/04/college_president_discusses_wo.html
-- Cos
On Apr 30, 2012, at 2:03 AM, Riccardo Bernardini wrote:
> I understand that this was the result of a "high-level dialogue"
> (whatever that means) among few (how many?) people. This reminds me
> of the "the Emperor of China nose length" problem
>
> http://imaginatorium.org/stuff/nose.htm
I ex
> > From: Mary Barnes [mary.ietf.bar...@gmail.com]
> >
> > Here is an article that does a far better job of explaining the
> > situation than I did:
> > http://www.todaysengineer.org/2011/May/women-in-engineering.asp
> >
> > The largest reason women leave engineering is due to the work
> > environm
sitions, at IETF than in my work environment.
>
> Janet
>
>
> ietf-boun...@ietf.org wrote on 04/30/2012 10:13:50 AM:
>
> > Mary Barnes
> > Sent by: ietf-boun...@ietf.org
> >
> > 04/30/2012 10:13 AM
> >
> > To
> >
> > Riccar
nment.
Janet
ietf-boun...@ietf.org wrote on 04/30/2012 10:13:50 AM:
> Mary Barnes
> Sent by: ietf-boun...@ietf.org
>
> 04/30/2012 10:13 AM
>
> To
>
> Riccardo Bernardini
>
> cc
>
> IETF discussion list
>
> Subject
>
> Re: 'Geek&
> From: Mary Barnes [mary.ietf.bar...@gmail.com]
>
> Here is an article that does a far better job of explaining the
> situation than I did:
> http://www.todaysengineer.org/2011/May/women-in-engineering.asp
>
> The largest reason women leave engineering is due to the work
> environment and percei
Here is an article that does a far better job of explaining the situation
than I did:
http://www.todaysengineer.org/2011/May/women-in-engineering.asp
The largest reason women leave engineering is due to the work environment
and perceived lack of support from colleagues.
Although, the one bonus of
On 4/30/12 7:33 AM, Riccardo Bernardini wrote:
So it seems (by this anecdotal and very limited evidence) that
> [ ... ]
So it seems to me that when in possession of only anecdotal,
limited evidence that it might be a good idea to acquire more
evidence before drawing conclusions.
Melinda
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Mary Barnes wrote:
> Yes, the article is far from complete. But, your antecdote only goes to
> show your own bias towards women in science and engineering in general. By
> the time most females reach high school they have already been conditioned
> that girls are
Hi Dale,
You wondered:
and btw my motto:
"geek c ést chic!"
What responses do you receive to your motto?
That it is spelled wrong...
BR, Huub.
On 4/30/12 2:03 AM, "Riccardo Bernardini" wrote:
> In this case the best solution (although not easy to implement) would
> be to ask directly to young women: "Are you interested in an ICT
> carrer?, If yes, why? If no, why not?"
From: Monique Morrow [mmor...@cisco.com]
> Well I do engage quite a
Yes, the article is far from complete. But, your antecdote only goes to
show your own bias towards women in science and engineering in general. By
the time most females reach high school they have already been conditioned
that girls aren't as good as boys in math and science. There's a far amount
Well I do engage quite actively in these discussion with girls in high
school; young women in universities and women in the industry the problem
space and opportunity is multifaceted, cultural depending upon the
country--- and btw my motto:
"geek c ést chic! "
Monique
On 4/30/12 2:03 AM, "Ric
I understand that this was the result of a "high-level dialogue"
(whatever that means) among few (how many?) people. This reminds me
of the "the Emperor of China nose length" problem
http://imaginatorium.org/stuff/nose.htm
Discussion among a limited group of people is not guaranteed to give
yo
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 10:39:56AM +0200,
Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote
a message of 13 lines which said:
> I also note that the "prominent women from the technology industry"
> invited by the IUT
s/IUT/ITU/ of course.
Not quite true -- I participated at this venue btw -- though the comment was
sourced from Nelli Kroes AFAIK
M
On 4/30/12 1:39 AM, "Stephane Bortzmeyer" wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 09:35:03AM +0100,
> Brian E Carpenter wrote
> a message of 9 lines which said:
>
>> Since the topic was r
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 09:35:03AM +0100,
Brian E Carpenter wrote
a message of 9 lines which said:
> Since the topic was raised here:
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/26/girls_in_ict_day/
So, IETF folklore never scares men? Good.
I also note that the "prominent women from the techn
Since the topic was raised here:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/26/girls_in_ict_day/
Note the comment about the need for role models.
Regards
Brian
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