--On mandag, desember 06, 2004 10:39:27 +0100 Brian E Carpenter
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Scott Bradner wrote:
Harald sez:
if "decisions of the IAOC can be appealed" rather reads:
--
If someone believes that the IAOC has violated the
Scott Bradner wrote:
Harald sez:
if "decisions of the IAOC can be appealed" rather reads:
--
If someone believes that the IAOC has violated the IAOC rules and
procedures, he or she can ask the IETF leadership to investigate the
mat
> "avri" == avri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
avri> OK, I am open to the idea. And I suppose that the current
avri> appeal mechanisms would allow it.
avri> But in that case I do have a problem with making the barrier
avri> higher for appeals originating from a non IOAC member
OK, I am open to the idea. And I suppose that the current appeal
mechanisms would allow it.
But in that case I do have a problem with making the barrier higher for
appeals originating from a non IOAC member. While I can see arguments
for not removing an IAOC's member's right of appeal, I don'
> "avri" == avri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
avri> And I don't think we want to get into a situation where we
avri> have one member of the IAOC appealing the actions of the
avri> IAOC.
I do. Or rather in cases where that happens, I'd treat the appeal
very seriously. Being reaso
On 3 dec 2004, at 16.28, Sam Hartman wrote:
2) Allow appeals to be made but set some bar for an appeal; perhaps
appeals from IAOC members are always accepted, but appeals from the
community require say 10 signatures.
Since the IAOC is the oversight body, why would they need to appeal the
act
> "Harald" == Harald Tveit Alvestrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Harald> In some other argument in some alternate universe, I said
Harald> about the appeals issue:
>> I see three alternatives:
>>
>> - Individual decisions of the IAOC cannot be appealed/reviewed
>> by
Brian, thanks for providing some scenarios here. Very helpful for
those of us who haven't been on IESG/IAB/ISOC BoT, and are trying to
visualize what the words mean.
I think Harald's followup is helpful here - the existing IESG/IAB are
already part of the "appeals from the community" food chain
Seems like a reasonable way to approach it.
a.
On 3 dec 2004, at 09.19, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:
In some other argument in some alternate universe, I said about the
appeals issue:
I see three alternatives:
- Individual decisions of the IAOC cannot be appealed/reviewed by
anyone
- We invent
Harald sez:
if "decisions of the IAOC can be appealed" rather reads:
--
If someone believes that the IAOC has violated the IAOC rules and
procedures, he or she can ask the IETF leadership to investigate the
matter, using the same p
Spencer Dawkins wrote:
Brian suggests:
Maybe we need a much more restricted right of appeal. Strawperson:
Decisions of the IAOC are subject to appeal exclusively on the grounds
that they have materially damaged correct execution of the IETF
standards process [RFC2026]. They follow the appeals p
I agree with Joel, I think.
The IAD is a manager. When you disagree with a manager's decision,
you complain to the next manager up (the IAOC). We don't need
to write that down.
The IAOC is a community appointed body - so we do need a
community process; that's either a recall, or posibly a restricte
In some other argument in some alternate universe, I said about the appeals
issue:
I see three alternatives:
- Individual decisions of the IAOC cannot be appealed/reviewed by anyone
- We invent an entirely new process from scratch just for IAOC matters
- We funnel appeals against IAOC into the ex
Agree with Joel here.
I would hate to see someone "appeal" an IAD decision because they
happened to disagree with it. That would make the job impossible.
There probably are some things that should be subject to appeal. I
don't know what they would be. If we can not list them, I don't
think we
On what kinds of grounds should such things be appealable?
For WG decisions, there can be appeals based on technical grounds or
procedural grounds.
The ISOC however may only here pure procedural appeals.
I would hate to see someone "appeal" an IAD decision because they happened
to disagree with
I tend to feel that both the decisions of the IAD and of the IAOC
should be appealable.
My thinking tends toward thinking that anyone should be able to appeal
the decision, or any practice including the accounting practices, of
the IAD. I believe we are defining high standards of transparency,
Brian suggests:
Maybe we need a much more restricted right of appeal. Strawperson:
Decisions of the IAOC are subject to appeal exclusively on the
grounds
that they have materially damaged correct execution of the IETF
standards process [RFC2026]. They follow the appeals process
applicable to
Brian suggests:
Maybe we need a much more restricted right of appeal. Strawperson:
Decisions of the IAOC are subject to appeal exclusively on the grounds
that they have materially damaged correct execution of the IETF
standards process [RFC2026]. They follow the appeals process
applicabl
The awarding of a contract to a vendor is an IAD decision, and as written,
IAD decisions are not appealable.
The decision that could be appealed is the IAOC's approval of the IAD
decision - a subtle difference, but an important one; the appeal would have
to be based on arguing that the IAOC did
Scott Bradner wrote:
draft-ietf-iasa-bcp-01 section 3.5 goes on to say:
Decisions of IAOC members or the entire IAOC are subject to appeal
using the procedures described in RFC 2026 [RFC2026]. Appeals of
IAOC decisions go first to the IESG, then continue up the chain as
necessary to th
Scott,
draft-ietf-iasa-bcp-01 section 3.5 goes on to say:
Decisions of IAOC members or the entire IAOC are subject to appeal
using the procedures described in RFC 2026 [RFC2026]. Appeals of
IAOC decisions go first to the IESG, then continue up the chain as
necessary to the IAB and the ISO
draft-ietf-iasa-bcp-01 section 3.5 goes on to say:
Decisions of IAOC members or the entire IAOC are subject to appeal
using the procedures described in RFC 2026 [RFC2026]. Appeals of
IAOC decisions go first to the IESG, then continue up the chain as
necessary to the IAB and the ISOC B
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