Re: IONs, RFC 4693, Core Process Documents, and BCPs

2008-03-13 Thread Lisa Dusseault
On Mar 8, 2008, at 10:39 PM, Frank Ellermann wrote: That is also a part of the ION concept: *Public*, *documented*, and *binding* rules without the need to track down obscure IAB pages, IESG minutes, or recent change patrol in a wgchairs wiki. I agree with the desire, and we have discussed

Re: IONs, RFC 4693, Core Process Documents, and BCPs

2008-03-08 Thread Frank Ellermann
John C Klensin wrote: > Several of us have observed that the IETF is not very good at > writing precise procedural rules. Some of us would even claim > that history shows that we are fairly poor. You could say roughly the same about the IETF not being as good as it should at producing valid AB

Re: IONs, RFC 4693, Core Process Documents, and BCPs

2008-03-08 Thread John C Klensin
--On Saturday, 08 March, 2008 18:13 +0100 Harald Tveit Alvestrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > (quibble - I call the BCPs that describe the principles for > the process "process" documents, so I'd say that BCPs are > probably the wrong mechanism for reaching consensus on and > publishing *proced

Re: IONs, RFC 4693, Core Process Documents, and BCPs

2008-03-08 Thread Harald Tveit Alvestrand
John C Klensin skrev: > > Some of this points out, once again, that BCPs are probably the > wrong mechanism for reaching consensus on and publishing process > documents, regardless of what we do with IONs. > > Should we keep IONs and, if so, should we keep them in their > present form or so some tu

IONs, RFC 4693, Core Process Documents, and BCPs

2008-03-08 Thread John C Klensin
Hi. After reading both the "IONs and discuss..." thread and last month's discussion about the ION Experiment and RFC 4693, I want to repeat something that at least some of us discussed extensively during the NEWTRK period (and maybe the POISSON period before that). Part of this has been said in t