Sam,
For whatever it is worth, I could not agree more with your
formulation. Although you have stated it better than I have, I
think our conclusions are much the same: trying to formalize all
of this and write into formal text just gets us tied into more
knots and risks edge cases and abuses that
Rather than losing these reasonable thoughts, I stuck them in the
transition team Wiki under "IAOC Instructions". They will be remembered.
Thanks, Sam!
--On 27. januar 2005 22:44 -0500 Sam Hartman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I think we are very close here. I can live with Margaret's text with
Les
Sam,
For myself, I agree these things are true. I would like to
believe they are obvious, though I'm not certain of that. For
example, these things are equally true of the IAB and IESG, but it's
not clear to me that everyone understands they can drop a
note to either of those groups.
I don't (per
Margaret,
I have two problems with your text:
- It does not handle the issue Mike st. Johns raised - about whether
reviewing bodies would have privilleged access to normally-confidential
information related to the decision being challenged.
- I don't know what it means for the IESG, IAB or ISOC
I think we are very close here. I can live with Margaret's text with
Leslie's proposed changes. It's actually very close to something I
would be happy with.
I've been rethinking my position since yesterday. I realized that
most of what I want does not require formalism or requires very little
f
I am happy with both as well.
thanks
a.
On 27 jan 2005, at 20.30, Margaret Wasserman wrote:
Hi Leslie,
I like this formulation.
A couple of suggested tweaks, inline:
...and I like your tweaks :-).
They make the text much clearer. Thanks.
Margaret
___
Iet
Hi Leslie,
I like this formulation.
A couple of suggested tweaks, inline:
...and I like your tweaks :-).
They make the text much clearer. Thanks.
Margaret
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I like this formulation.
A couple of suggested tweaks, inline:
Margaret Wasserman wrote:
Remove the current sections 3.5 and 3.6 and replace them with a new
section 3.5:
3.5 Review and Appeal of IAD and IAOC Decision
The IAOC is directly accountable to the IETF community for the
performanc
Hi Eric,
The problem is that "best interests of the IETF " is a completely
amorophous standard (In my view, chocolate helps people think
better so we need chocolate chip cookies in order to produce
better standards), so I don't seee how this rules out any appeals
at all.
This is a good point, and I
Margaret Wasserman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> At 5:40 PM -0800 1/26/05, Eric Rescorla wrote:
>>With that in mind, I would like to suggest the following principles:
>>
>>1. The IETF community should have input on the internal rules
>>set by the IASA and the IASA should be required to respond
I am actually not strongly in favor of principle (6) myself. I
think that the IAB, IESG and ISOC BoT could be trusted to decide
whether overturning a particular (non-binding) decision is
appropriate in a particular situation. But, others seemed to feel
strongly that allowing anyone else to ov
Hi Eric,
At 5:40 PM -0800 1/26/05, Eric Rescorla wrote:
With that in mind, I would like to suggest the following principles:
1. The IETF community should have input on the internal rules
set by the IASA and the IASA should be required to respond
to comments by the community on said rules.
2.
> "Eric" == Eric Rescorla writes:
Eric> bad decisions we have a mechanism for unseating them.
Eric> 3. Decisions of the IAOC should be appealable (following the
Eric> usual 2026 appeal chain) on the sole grounds that the IASA's
Eric> processes were not followed. Those decisio
> "Leslie" == Leslie Daigle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Leslie> Sam,
Leslie> Let me first take another stab at recap'ing the discussion
Leslie> that lead to my proposal for 3.5 and 3.6, and clarifying
Leslie> what I intend as a distinction between them.
Leslie> As I under
Sam Hartman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> "Eric" == Eric Rescorla writes:
>
> Eric> bad decisions we have a mechanism for unseating them.
>
> Eric> 3. Decisions of the IAOC should be appealable (following the
> Eric> usual 2026 appeal chain) on the sole grounds that the IASA's
>
This set of principles works for me.
a.
On 26 jan 2005, at 20.40, Eric Rescorla wrote:
With that in mind, I would like to suggest the following principles:
1. The IETF community should have input on the internal rules
set by the IASA and the IASA should be required to respond
to comments by t
Sam Hartman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I don't think I can support your proposed text. I still don't
> understand what your proposed section 3.5 does and don't think I could
> go along with the plausable readings I'm coming up with for that text.
>
> I don't think your text does a good job of
Sam,
Let me first take another stab at recap'ing the discussion that
lead to my proposal for 3.5 and 3.6, and clarifying what I
intend as a distinction between them.
As I understood them, John Klensin, Mike St.Johns, and others
were concerned about creating an IASA that could not or
operate without
I don't think I can support your proposed text. I still don't
understand what your proposed section 3.5 does and don't think I could
go along with the plausable readings I'm coming up with for that text.
I don't think your text does a good job of meeting the principles
Margaret tried to outline;
Avri,
I hear what you are saying. I retained the proposed text
for being obliged to respond only when direct by IAB/IESG
because people seemed to want it for rate limiting (i.e.,
preventing DoS). So, we can't just throw it out. We can
change it (entirely), but the empty set option does
not seem
I like this text. In any event, it seems much closer to what
the community seems to want than what we have in the revision 04
document. So I have included the text suggested by Leslie,
with the understanding that I have not yet seen Harald declare
consensus (seems early for that anyways).
In the r
L PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 14:03
> To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand
> Cc: ietf@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: Mud. Clear as. Re: Rough consensus? #425 3.5
>
>
> Hi Harald,
>
> On 26 jan 2005, at 02.23, Harald Tveit Alvestrand
Hi Harald,
On 26 jan 2005, at 02.23, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:
Avri,
--On tirsdag, januar 25, 2005 23:44:09 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Leslie,
This formulation is still of the form that does not give the IETF
community a direct voice in the review and appeal mechanisms for the
IAOC.
I
Avri,
--On tirsdag, januar 25, 2005 23:44:09 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Leslie,
This formulation is still of the form that does not give the IETF
community a direct voice in the review and appeal mechanisms for the IAOC.
I do not understand what you mean by "direct voice". Could you explain?
Hi Leslie,
This formulation is still of the form that does not give the IETF
community a direct voice in the review and appeal mechanisms for the
IAOC.
I, personally see not reason why the IAOC is not directly addressable
by the community and does not have a direct obligation to the IETF
commu
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