Usability RE: Write an RFC Was: experiments in the ietf week

2008-03-25 Thread Hallam-Baker, Phillip
What I am trying to get at here is the problem of usability. Security is no use to me to stop Internet crime if everyone either turns it off or is unable to use it. The layered model is a big problem here because the lower layers abstract away the user. There is no user interface, there are no

Re: Write an RFC Was: experiments in the ietf week

2008-03-25 Thread Andrew G. Malis
Phillip does have a point regarding 802.1x authentication, which is typically used to authenticate the user to the service, and not vice versa. Conceivably a person could set up an evil access point that advertises the same beacon as the official access points, and has 802.1x enabled to accept the

RE: Write an RFC Was: experiments in the ietf week

2008-03-25 Thread Hallam-Baker, Phillip
Yes, a security experiment is not so interesting without an attack. I would like an evil twin access point to be set up with a cert that says 'evil twin' and measure how much traffic goes through it. This is frequently done at BlackHat albeit not necessarily in a manner that complies with

Re: Write an RFC Was: experiments in the ietf week

2008-03-24 Thread Jari Arkko
Phillip, write an Internet Draft prior to the experiment, +1 *IPv6 Next Steps* The Philadelphia IPv6 outage tested one specific aspect of the transition - is there an IPv6 network on the other side to connect to in due course, is it possible to run a pure IPv6 network? I think that

Re: Write an RFC Was: experiments in the ietf week

2008-03-24 Thread Russ Housley
Phillip: Have you tried the SSID at the IETF meetings that is configured to make use of 802.1x? Russ At 01:49 PM 3/24/2008, Hallam-Baker, Phillip wrote: Secure WiFi Connection I would like to see some demonstration of the fact that the default WiFi configuration on all existing platforms

RE: Write an RFC Was: experiments in the ietf week

2008-03-24 Thread Hallam-Baker, Phillip
Well I would submit that there is a major problem there on the security usability front. Don't make me think. My tolerance for network configuration is vastly greater than the typical user. This has to all just work, just like my Apple Mac did on the home network the day I bought it. Not

RE: Write an RFC Was: experiments in the ietf week

2008-03-24 Thread Hallam-Baker, Phillip
I am willing to have a go at it next time round but only if I have some idea what I am expected to have on my machine and what authentication indicata I am to expect. As it stands there is no way for me to evaluate an authentic or inauthentic experience. I don't know what authentic looks like.

Re: Write an RFC Was: experiments in the ietf week

2008-03-24 Thread Patrik Fältström
On 25 mar 2008, at 02.18, Hallam-Baker, Phillip wrote: I am willing to have a go at it next time round but only if I have some idea what I am expected to have on my machine and what authentication indicata I am to expect. As it stands there is no way for me to evaluate an authentic or