On Sat, Apr 02, 2005 at 05:06:20AM +0200,
Anthony G. Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
a message of 58 lines which said:
The legislation on cryptography in France is vast and complicated;
Yes and the last update was in last july so you have to apply a lot of
diffs to know the current
- Original Message -
From: Anthony G. Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sunday, April 3, 2005 6:21 pm
Subject: Re: french crypto regulations relating to personal encryption
usage by visitors?
Unfortunately, many societies operate in just that way: there is a
hugedifference between
Stephane Bortzmeyer writes:
It seems they have never been enforced at all.
The powers that be choose various laws to persecute those whom they seek
to bring down; presumably no recent target has been in a situation such
that prosecution on the basis of crypto regulations was the easiest way
to
Benyamin Nasution writes:
So..., if it is true, it means that virtually all countrieas are
abusing their power?
The pattern of abuse generally tracks the extent to which existing laws
are routinely disobeyed. The greater the gulf between what the laws
require and what people actually do in
At 00:50 05/04/2005, Anthony G. Atkielski wrote:
Stephane Bortzmeyer writes:
It seems they have never been enforced at all.
The powers that be choose various laws to persecute those whom they seek
to bring down; presumably no recent target has been in a situation such
that prosecution on the
JFC (Jefsey) Morfin writes:
Dont worry, we just have it in the books to retaliate when USA blocks
Roquefort, Bordeaux, Renault, Alcatel or Airbus sales.
I wasn't talking about using the laws against foreigners. Usually they
are used against French nationals who become a little too uppity for
I heard a rumor that North Korea is planning to invade France in August to
take possesion of strategic food and wine reserves, and to prove that they
are reading this list. I think they'll ignore crypto however.
:-)
ole
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At 02:03 05/04/2005, Ole Jacobsen wrote:
I heard a rumor that North Korea is planning to invade France in August to
take possesion of strategic food and wine reserves, and to prove that they
are reading this list. I think they'll ignore crypto however.
:-)
Heard that one too?
The confusion with
Christian Huitema writes:
Actually, there was a period in the 80's during which US tourists had
to obtain a visa before visiting France. This followed terrorist
bombings in Paris. The French authorities wanted to restrict movements
of potential terrorists. The terrorist movements involved
Sam Hartman writes:
Also, most of us are engineers. We'd like to know that what we are
doing is absolutely legal. We don't want to know that if some customs
agent really wants to make our life difficult they could and it would
be hard for us. Your trip will be safe unless you manage to
On 3 apr 2005, at 04.39, Eric Rescorla wrote:
I'm not sure what you think the misunderstanding is. That people
are often self-interested and prefer to minimize travel time?
I doubt that's a misunderstanding at all.
I don't agree with this assessment. I think that if the decision where
to
Let's assume that the crypto regulations are a red herring as far
as Paris is concerned. I'd like to state the obvious - every location
we choose for an IETF is a compromise. Jordi Palet took on the job of
writing a first draft of site selection criteria. Things like visa
requirements and crypto
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On 3 apr 2005, at 04.39, Eric Rescorla wrote:
I'm not sure what you think the misunderstanding is. That people
are often self-interested and prefer to minimize travel time?
I doubt that's a misunderstanding at all.
I don't agree with this assessment. I think
But, having travelled in and out of France for the last decade+ I can
categorically state that this has NEVER happened to me nor anyone I
know of/have heard of.
Neither have I. Nor have crypto laws seem a problem taking a lap top
over US borders.
So, trying to get an IETF
Jaap == Jaap Akkerhuis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Jaap I'm amazed about what non-issues are raised everytime the
Jaap IETF is not meeting in the USA.
I think there is some bias on both sides. The US folks would love to
show that either the rest of the world is as bad as the US or
Sam Hartman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Jaap == Jaap Akkerhuis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Jaap I'm amazed about what non-issues are raised everytime the
Jaap IETF is not meeting in the USA.
I think there is some bias on both sides. The US folks would love to
show that either
On Sat, 2 Apr 2005, Jaap Akkerhuis wrote:
To my opinion, one threat to the international nature of the IETF are
the continuous increasing difficulties entering the US. This morning I
read in the local papers that starting the 25th of october the
Visa-Waiver program will grind to a halt for
And as an American, I'd just like to say that this is an embarrassment
to
me. Free trade, but not free travel. How can you have one without the
other?
Actually, there was a period in the 80's during which US tourists had to
obtain a visa before visiting France. This followed terrorist
On Apr 02 2005, at 15:35 Uhr, Sam Hartman wrote:
Similarly the
rest of the world would like to show that we should have the meetings
closer to them.
You are making an assumption about the motives of the people that point
out the continuing decline of suitability of the US as a meeting place
for
Carsten Bormann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Apr 02 2005, at 15:35 Uhr, Sam Hartman wrote:
Similarly the
rest of the world would like to show that we should have the meetings
closer to them.
You are making an assumption about the motives of the people that
point out the continuing decline
Eric Rescorla ekr@rtfm.com writes:
Carsten Bormann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Apr 02 2005, at 15:35 Uhr, Sam Hartman wrote:
Similarly the
rest of the world would like to show that we should have the meetings
closer to them.
You are making an assumption about the motives of the people
As the next IETF meeting will be in Paris, and France has had something
a reputation for placing strict controls on the use of cryptography, I
took a look..
(This is, of course, a matter of potential concern to those of us who
carry laptops with encryption software for personal use to every IETF
The IETF could write a letter to the appropriate Ministry to ask for a
special exemption.
This may also motivate them to continue the liberalization of the crypto
laws.
'Rarely enforced' doesn't mean that they should be ignored.
--Dean
On Fri, 1 Apr 2005, Bill Sommerfeld wrote:
Bill == Bill Sommerfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Bill has what claims to be a summary. There appears to be a
Bill personal use exemption of some sort but there's no mention
Bill of re-export of the laptop you imported when you entered the
Bill country..
Same deal with the US.
Sam == Sam Hartman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Bill == Bill Sommerfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Sam For many programs, it seems like 15 CFR 740.15 (e) or 15 CFR
Sam 740.17 will allow re-export. I'm not a lawyer; I just had to
Sam argue too much about this stuff with lawyers.
OK, I
Bill Sommerfeld writes:
As the next IETF meeting will be in Paris, and France has had something
a reputation for placing strict controls on the use of cryptography, I
took a look..
(This is, of course, a matter of potential concern to those of us who
carry laptops with encryption software
Dean Anderson writes:
The IETF could write a letter to the appropriate Ministry to ask for a
special exemption.
It can't. Declarations and requests for authorization must come from
the vendor or the user.
But in practice, most types of crypto are lightly regulated, or not at
all, if they use
If there was a pattern of random customs agents trying to inspect your
laptop for crypto, I would worry---mostly about the delay that this would
cause rather than anything else.
But, having travelled in and out of France for the last decade+ I can
categorically state that this has NEVER happened
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