Re: [ietf-dkim] ADSP and Discardable (was Re: Lists "BCP" draft review)

2010-06-02 Thread Dave CROCKER
> Also, there's documented precedent within the IETF. RFC 863 has a clear > definition: ... >> 2.3.6. Buffer and State Table ... > 5321 uses "discard" or "discarded" in other places, too. Well, one must always respect the lawyerly exercise of doing an audit to find precedent. But there's so

Re: [ietf-dkim] ADSP and Discardable (was Re: Lists "BCP" draft review)

2010-06-02 Thread J.D. Falk
On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:55 AM, John R. Levine wrote: >> My guess is that the phrase "the domain encourages the recipient(s) to >> discard it" is intended to refer to a silent discard. > > I don't think any of us expected the recipient to send a notification. I > certainly didn't, since the assum

Re: [ietf-dkim] ADSP and Discardable (was Re: Lists "BCP" draft review)

2010-06-02 Thread Douglas Otis
On 6/2/10 10:10 AM, Scott Kitterman wrote: > "Dave CROCKER" wrote: > > On 6/2/2010 8:08 AM, Al Iverson wrote: > >>> Agree. "Discard" and "silently discard" mean the same thing, in my >>> opinion. Though, I am guilty of using the phrase "silently discard." >>> Maybe in an attempt to be slightly

Re: [ietf-dkim] ADSP and Discardable (was Re: Lists "BCP" draft review)

2010-06-02 Thread Rolf E. Sonneveld
Scott Kitterman wrote: > "Dave CROCKER" wrote: > > >> On 6/2/2010 8:08 AM, Al Iverson wrote: >> >>> Agree. "Discard" and "silently discard" mean the same thing, in my >>> opinion. Though, I am guilty of using the phrase "silently discard." >>> Maybe in an attempt to be slightly over-specif

Re: [ietf-dkim] ADSP and Discardable (was Re: Lists "BCP" draft review)

2010-06-02 Thread Scott Kitterman
"Dave CROCKER" wrote: > > >On 6/2/2010 8:08 AM, Al Iverson wrote: >> Agree. "Discard" and "silently discard" mean the same thing, in my >> opinion. Though, I am guilty of using the phrase "silently discard." >> Maybe in an attempt to be slightly over-specific. > > >I do not recall seeing a dict

Re: [ietf-dkim] ADSP and Discardable (was Re: Lists "BCP" draft review)

2010-06-02 Thread John R. Levine
>> Your English is fine. "Discard" means throw away. > > And, to "silently discard" is to discard without informing anyone. It means, > for example, that you don't also generate a bounce message, or a notification > to the recipient. > > My guess is that the phrase "the domain encourages the rec

Re: [ietf-dkim] ADSP and Discardable (was Re: Lists "BCP" draft review)

2010-06-02 Thread Steve Atkins
On Jun 2, 2010, at 8:08 AM, Al Iverson wrote: > On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 9:48 AM, John R. Levine wrote: >>> given the recent discussions, it seems to me that people want to have a >>> definition of what 'discard' means in the context as described above. As a >>> non-native English speaker (or what

Re: [ietf-dkim] ADSP and Discardable (was Re: Lists "BCP" draft review)

2010-06-02 Thread Dave CROCKER
On 6/2/2010 8:50 AM, Al Iverson wrote: >> Taken on its own and without further technical specifications 'discard' does >> not direct, imply or request that the action be silent or noisy, and if >> noisy who gets to hear it. > > I'm perfectly fine with being more explicit, but I do think there's a

Re: [ietf-dkim] ADSP and Discardable (was Re: Lists "BCP" draft review)

2010-06-02 Thread Ian Eiloart
--On 2 June 2010 10:48:03 -0400 "John R. Levine" wrote: >> given the recent discussions, it seems to me that people want to have a >> definition of what 'discard' means in the context as described above. As >> a non-native English speaker (or what's the right term?) I suppose (but >> am not s

Re: [ietf-dkim] ADSP and Discardable (was Re: Lists "BCP" draft review)

2010-06-02 Thread Al Iverson
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Dave CROCKER wrote: > On 6/2/2010 8:08 AM, Al Iverson wrote: >> >> Agree. "Discard" and "silently discard" mean the same thing, in my >> opinion. Though, I am guilty of using the phrase "silently discard." >> Maybe in an attempt to be slightly over-specific. > > >

Re: [ietf-dkim] ADSP and Discardable (was Re: Lists "BCP" draft review)

2010-06-02 Thread Dave CROCKER
On 6/2/2010 8:08 AM, Al Iverson wrote: > Agree. "Discard" and "silently discard" mean the same thing, in my > opinion. Though, I am guilty of using the phrase "silently discard." > Maybe in an attempt to be slightly over-specific. I do not recall seeing a dictionary or technical definition of "

Re: [ietf-dkim] ADSP and Discardable (was Re: Lists "BCP" draft review)

2010-06-02 Thread Al Iverson
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 9:48 AM, John R. Levine wrote: >> given the recent discussions, it seems to me that people want to have a >> definition of what 'discard' means in the context as described above. As a >> non-native English speaker (or what's the right term?) I suppose (but am not >> sure) th

Re: [ietf-dkim] ADSP and Discardable (was Re: Lists "BCP" draft review)

2010-06-02 Thread John R. Levine
> given the recent discussions, it seems to me that people want to have a > definition of what 'discard' means in the context as described above. As a > non-native English speaker (or what's the right term?) I suppose (but am not > sure) the word 'discard' can have multiple meanings (apart from

Re: [ietf-dkim] ADSP and Discardable (was Re: Lists "BCP" draft review)

2010-06-02 Thread Rolf E. Sonneveld
John Levine wrote: Unfortunately, ADSP did not define what was meant by "discardable". We said: All mail from the domain is signed with an Author Domain Signature. Furthermore, if a message arrives without a valid Author Domain

Re: [ietf-dkim] ADSP and Discardable (was Re: Lists "BCP" draft review)

2010-06-02 Thread John Levine
>> Unfortunately, ADSP did not define what was meant by "discardable". We said: All mail from the domain is signed with an Author Domain Signature. Furthermore, if a message arrives without a valid Author Domain Signature due to modifi

[ietf-dkim] ADSP and Discardable (was Re: Lists "BCP" draft review)

2010-06-02 Thread Rolf E. Sonneveld
Douglas Otis wrote: > IIRC, Sendmail defined DISCARD in their Access Database Format, where to > override rejection, assert OK; to permit relaying, assert RELAY; to > always reject the message, assert REJECT; and to discard the message > completely, assert DISCARD. And the Postfix man page f