Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-24 Thread Ian Eiloart
On 23 Jun 2011, at 20:00, Douglas Otis wrote: This seems like a completely bogus argument to me. You're saying that some domains can't be trusted, therefore none can be trusted. That's a logical fallacy. Not at all. Acceptance policies and results for DKIM MUST align with what is being

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-24 Thread Ian Eiloart
On 24 Jun 2011, at 05:55, John R. Levine wrote: Assuming this is some other protocol layers problem; to ensure consistency between any possible display and DKIM validation, ... ... is, for about the hundredth time, not DKIM's job. Please chant we have no idea how MUAs will display mail

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-24 Thread Ian Eiloart
On 24 Jun 2011, at 03:46, Douglas Otis wrote: On 6/23/11 2:52 PM, John R. Levine wrote: Acceptance policies and results for DKIM MUST align with what is being displayed in the message. I'm pretty sure that we have uniformly agreed not to attempt to do MUA design, so, no, it doesn't. We

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-24 Thread Charles Lindsey
On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 05:55:38 +0100, John R. Levine jo...@iecc.com wrote: Assuming this is some other protocol layers problem; to ensure consistency between any possible display and DKIM validation, ... ... is, for about the hundredth time, not DKIM's job. Please chant we have no idea

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-23 Thread Ian Eiloart
On 21 Jun 2011, at 19:47, Douglas Otis wrote: On 6/17/11 1:05 PM, Rolf E. Sonneveld wrote: Dear all, after some off-list conversation with Dave he suggested I might want to send this to the list. I apologize in advance if this message does not apply to you. I also apologize if you get

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-23 Thread Douglas Otis
On 6/23/11 5:16 AM, Ian Eiloart wrote: On 21 Jun 2011, at 19:47, Douglas Otis wrote: Hi Rolf, The general goal of DKIM was to establish a domain relationship as a trust basis for acceptance. DKIM was also to allow incremental deployment without requiring undefined additional filtering

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-23 Thread John R. Levine
Acceptance policies and results for DKIM MUST align with what is being displayed in the message. I'm pretty sure that we have uniformly agreed not to attempt to do MUA design, so, no, it doesn't. We have no idea what is displayed in the message. We have no idea if the message will ever be

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-23 Thread Douglas Otis
On 6/23/11 2:52 PM, John R. Levine wrote: Acceptance policies and results for DKIM MUST align with what is being displayed in the message. I'm pretty sure that we have uniformly agreed not to attempt to do MUA design, so, no, it doesn't. We have no idea what is displayed in the message.

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-23 Thread John R. Levine
I'm pretty sure that we have uniformly agreed not to attempt to do MUA design, so, no, it doesn't. We have no idea what is displayed in the message. We have no idea if the message will ever be displayed at all. Ian, John is right. Most headers are displayed selecting top-down If you'll

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-23 Thread Douglas Otis
On 6/23/11 8:34 PM, John R. Levine wrote: I'm pretty sure that we have uniformly agreed not to attempt to do MUA design, so, no, it doesn't. We have no idea what is displayed in the message. We have no idea if the message will ever be displayed at all. Ian, John is right. Most headers

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-23 Thread John R. Levine
Assuming this is some other protocol layers problem; to ensure consistency between any possible display and DKIM validation, ... ... is, for about the hundredth time, not DKIM's job. Please chant we have no idea how MUAs will display mail over and over until you believe it. This includes

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-21 Thread Douglas Otis
On 6/17/11 1:05 PM, Rolf E. Sonneveld wrote: Dear all, after some off-list conversation with Dave he suggested I might want to send this to the list. I apologize in advance if this message does not apply to you. I also apologize if you get this message twice, when you are subscribed to both

[ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-17 Thread Rolf E. Sonneveld
Dear all, after some off-list conversation with Dave he suggested I might want to send this to the list. I apologize in advance if this message does not apply to you. I also apologize if you get this message twice, when you are subscribed to both ietf-dkim and the opendkim list. The Dutch

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-17 Thread Franck Martin
-dkim@mipassoc.orgmailto:ietf-dkim@mipassoc.org, opendkim-us...@lists.opendkim.orgmailto:opendkim-us...@lists.opendkim.org opendkim-us...@lists.opendkim.orgmailto:opendkim-us...@lists.opendkim.org Subject: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list Dear all, after