Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-24 Thread Charles Lindsey
On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 05:55:38 +0100, John R. Levine wrote: >> Assuming this is some other protocol layers problem; to ensure >> consistency >> between any possible display and DKIM validation, ... > > ... is, for about the hundredth time, not DKIM's job. > > Please chant "we have no idea how M

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-24 Thread Barry Leiba
> I think we can be pretty sure that - if there's only one "From:" header - then > the MUA won't display an unsigned From: header in preference to a signed one. No, but, for example, we have no idea whether an MUA will show any of these things, or something else entirely: > From: Barry Leiba >

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-24 Thread Ian Eiloart
On 24 Jun 2011, at 03:46, Douglas Otis wrote: > On 6/23/11 2:52 PM, John R. Levine wrote: >>> Acceptance policies and results for DKIM MUST align with >>> what is being displayed in the message. >> I'm pretty sure that we have uniformly agreed not to attempt to do MUA >> design, so, no, it doesn

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-24 Thread Ian Eiloart
On 24 Jun 2011, at 05:55, John R. Levine wrote: >> Assuming this is some other protocol layers problem; to ensure consistency >> between any possible display and DKIM validation, ... > > ... is, for about the hundredth time, not DKIM's job. > > Please chant "we have no idea how MUAs will disp

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-24 Thread Ian Eiloart
On 23 Jun 2011, at 20:00, Douglas Otis wrote: >> >> This seems like a completely bogus argument to me. You're saying that >> some domains can't be trusted, therefore none can be trusted. That's >> a logical fallacy. > > Not at all. Acceptance policies and results for DKIM MUST align with > wha

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-23 Thread John R. Levine
> Assuming this is some other protocol layers problem; to ensure consistency > between any possible display and DKIM validation, ... ... is, for about the hundredth time, not DKIM's job. Please chant "we have no idea how MUAs will display mail" over and over until you believe it. This include

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-23 Thread Douglas Otis
On 6/23/11 8:34 PM, John R. Levine wrote: >>> I'm pretty sure that we have uniformly agreed not to attempt to do >>> MUA design, so, no, it doesn't. We have no idea what is displayed >>> in the message. We have no idea if the message will ever be >>> displayed at all. >> Ian, >> >> John is rig

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-23 Thread John R. Levine
>> I'm pretty sure that we have uniformly agreed not to attempt to do MUA >> design, so, no, it doesn't. We have no idea what is displayed in the >> message. We have no idea if the message will ever be displayed at all. > Ian, > > John is right. Most headers are displayed selecting top-down I

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-23 Thread Douglas Otis
On 6/23/11 2:52 PM, John R. Levine wrote: >> Acceptance policies and results for DKIM MUST align with >> what is being displayed in the message. > I'm pretty sure that we have uniformly agreed not to attempt to do MUA > design, so, no, it doesn't. We have no idea what is displayed in the > messa

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-23 Thread John R. Levine
> Acceptance policies and results for DKIM MUST align with > what is being displayed in the message. I'm pretty sure that we have uniformly agreed not to attempt to do MUA design, so, no, it doesn't. We have no idea what is displayed in the message. We have no idea if the message will ever be

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-23 Thread Douglas Otis
On 6/23/11 5:16 AM, Ian Eiloart wrote: > > On 21 Jun 2011, at 19:47, Douglas Otis wrote: >> Hi Rolf, >> >> The general goal of DKIM was to establish a domain relationship as >> a trust basis for acceptance. DKIM was also to allow incremental >> deployment without requiring undefined additional fil

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-23 Thread Ian Eiloart
On 21 Jun 2011, at 19:47, Douglas Otis wrote: > On 6/17/11 1:05 PM, Rolf E. Sonneveld wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> after some off-list conversation with Dave he suggested I might want to >> send this to the list. I apologize in advance if this message does not >> apply to you. I also apologize if y

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-21 Thread Douglas Otis
On 6/17/11 1:05 PM, Rolf E. Sonneveld wrote: > Dear all, > > after some off-list conversation with Dave he suggested I might want to > send this to the list. I apologize in advance if this message does not > apply to you. I also apologize if you get this message twice, when you > are subscribed to

Re: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-17 Thread Franck Martin
mailto:ietf-dkim@mipassoc.org>>, "opendkim-us...@lists.opendkim.org<mailto:opendkim-us...@lists.opendkim.org>" mailto:opendkim-us...@lists.opendkim.org>> Subject: [ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list Dear all, after some off-list co

[ietf-dkim] DKIM expert group meeting for Dutch 'comply or explain' list

2011-06-17 Thread Rolf E. Sonneveld
Dear all, after some off-list conversation with Dave he suggested I might want to send this to the list. I apologize in advance if this message does not apply to you. I also apologize if you get this message twice, when you are subscribed to both ietf-dkim and the opendkim list. The Dutch go