Re: [ietf-dkim] The mystery of third party signatures

2009-10-08 Thread J.D. Falk
Barry Leiba wrote: I'm not in favour of complicating the protocol, when we can do what we want to do with what's there. I'd really need to see significant new use cases to drive any major change here. +1 On the other hand, I'd see nothing wrong if someone should want to write a draft

Re: [ietf-dkim] The mystery of third party signatures

2009-10-08 Thread Douglas Otis
On 10/8/09 12:48 PM, J.D. Falk wrote: Barry Leiba wrote: I'm not in favour of complicating the protocol, when we can do what we want to do with what's there. I'd really need to see significant new use cases to drive any major change here. +1 On the other hand, I'd see nothing wrong if

Re: [ietf-dkim] The mystery of third party signatures

2009-10-07 Thread Daniel Black
On Wednesday 07 October 2009 09:38:37 Doug Otis wrote: Doug, I've in favour of a solution to option C) as you describe it: To authorize mailing lists to better ensure their message's handling while asserting a (ADSP) policy of all. Publishing third party allow records on the author domains

Re: [ietf-dkim] The mystery of third party signatures

2009-10-07 Thread Barry Leiba
Mike says... All of this is rather academic though: the big guys are signing now because they can find some biz justification to do so. Until that biz justification percolates down, it doesn't really make much difference what we do. When it does, the DNS problem will evaporate. I think

Re: [ietf-dkim] The mystery of third party signatures

2009-10-07 Thread Doug Otis
On 10/7/09 1:36 PM, Barry Leiba wrote: On the other hand, I'd see nothing wrong if someone should want to write a draft about mailing-list considerations, and propose it as a working group item. But I'd want to see it as a draft that we can review, not just as a few ideas in an email message.

Re: [ietf-dkim] The mystery of third party signatures

2009-10-07 Thread hector
Barry Leiba wrote: I'm not in favour of complicating the protocol, when we can do what we want to do with what's there. I'd really need to see significant new use cases to drive any major change here. DKIM implementation is already complex and confusing. The goal of policy was to make it

Re: [ietf-dkim] The mystery of third party signatures

2009-10-07 Thread Franck Martin
- Barry Leiba barryleiba.mailing.li...@gmail.com wrote: Mike says... All of this is rather academic though: the big guys are signing now because they can find some biz justification to do so. Until that biz justification percolates down, it doesn't really make much difference what

Re: [ietf-dkim] The mystery of third party signatures

2009-10-06 Thread Doug Otis
On 10/5/09 5:38 PM, John Levine wrote: In light of the comments by Bill Oxley and my belief that the ability of a domain to designate signing by a specified 3rd party is useful, ... It would really be helpful if you two could explain WHY you think it's useful. Given the way that DKIM works,

Re: [ietf-dkim] The mystery of third party signatures

2009-10-06 Thread Bill.Oxley
To: ietf-dkim@mipassoc.org Cc: mham...@ag.com Subject: [ietf-dkim] The mystery of third party signatures In light of the comments by Bill Oxley and my belief that the ability of a domain to designate signing by a specified 3rd party is useful, ... It would really be helpful if you two could explain

Re: [ietf-dkim] The mystery of third party signatures

2009-10-06 Thread Michael Thomas
On 10/06/2009 10:30 AM, bill.ox...@cox.com wrote: C) I can sell the ability to do 3rd party DKIM signing for those companies who are described in A) If you're getting paid for signing somebody else's traffic, doesn't it make sense that the service can do some hand holding to get their DNS set

Re: [ietf-dkim] The mystery of third party signatures

2009-10-06 Thread Franck Martin
Just on 3rd party signing and mainly for my own benefit (and hopefully yours) I see a few cases I'll try to describe. 1) I send an email to a mailing list, I first party dkim sign the email Considering mailman behavior, what does it do with this email? -It could resend it as is, adding a third

Re: [ietf-dkim] The mystery of third party signatures

2009-10-06 Thread Michael Thomas
...@mtcc.com To: Bill Oxleybill.ox...@cox.com Cc: ietf-dkim@mipassoc.org, mham...@ag.com Sent: Wednesday, 7 October, 2009 8:46:57 AM GMT +12:00 Fiji Subject: Re: [ietf-dkim] The mystery of third party signatures On 10/06/2009 10:30 AM, bill.ox...@cox.com wrote: C) I can sell the ability to do 3rd party

Re: [ietf-dkim] The mystery of third party signatures

2009-10-06 Thread Doug Otis
On 10/6/09 1:46 PM, Michael Thomas wrote: On 10/06/2009 10:30 AM, bill.ox...@cox.com wrote: C) I can sell the ability to do 3rd party DKIM signing for those companies who are described in A) If you're getting paid for signing somebody else's traffic, doesn't it make sense that the service

[ietf-dkim] The mystery of third party signatures

2009-10-05 Thread John Levine
In light of the comments by Bill Oxley and my belief that the ability of a domain to designate signing by a specified 3rd party is useful, ... It would really be helpful if you two could explain WHY you think it's useful. Given the way that DKIM works, there's only two possible benefits from