Re: [ietf-dkim] detecting header mutations after signing

2010-10-08 Thread Wietse Venema
If I understand things correctly, the solution is already available in DKIM today. It involves signer configuration (sign for N+1 instances of each header that is covered by the signature) and requires no change in protocol or semantics. It merely hardens the DKIM signature and I see

Re: [ietf-dkim] detecting header mutations after signing

2010-10-08 Thread Murray S. Kucherawy
-Original Message- From: ietf-dkim-boun...@mipassoc.org [mailto:ietf-dkim-boun...@mipassoc.org] On Behalf Of Wietse Venema Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 1:16 PM To: ietf-dkim@mipassoc.org Subject: Re: [ietf-dkim] detecting header mutations after signing What I describe would

Re: [ietf-dkim] detecting header mutations after signing

2010-10-08 Thread Wietse Venema
Wietse: What I describe would be a best practice application of DKIM mechanisms that already exist. Mail is signed as if there are N+1 instances of each header that is covered by the DKIM signature. The verifier will then fail if any such header is added after-the-fact. With this, there

Re: [ietf-dkim] detecting header mutations after signing

2010-10-08 Thread MH Michael Hammer (5304)
-Original Message- From: ietf-dkim-boun...@mipassoc.org [mailto:ietf-dkim- boun...@mipassoc.org] On Behalf Of Wietse Venema Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 1:26 PM To: ietf-dkim@mipassoc.org Subject: Re: [ietf-dkim] detecting header mutations after signing Dave CROCKER

Re: [ietf-dkim] detecting header mutations after signing

2010-10-08 Thread Jeff Macdonald
Hence my original post with the suggested special consideration text for section 5.4 in regards to 5322.from. -- HLS Wietse Venema wrote: Wietse: What I describe would be a best practice application of DKIM mechanisms that already exist. Mail is signed as if there are N+1 instances of each

Re: [ietf-dkim] detecting header mutations after signing

2010-10-08 Thread John R. Levine
With this, there is no need to rely on enforcement mechanisms outside DKIM, such as the correct implementation of RFC 5322. I would suggest constraining that to include only those fields that are 0-or-1 in RFC5322 Section 3.6. For example, doing this with Received: is begging for

Re: [ietf-dkim] detecting header mutations after signing

2010-10-07 Thread John R. Levine
I'd say that it would be better to just say that if you sign a non-compliant 5322 message that its verification is undefined, and move on. That at least matches reality, and hasn't hurt anything that I'm aware of. Except that's not the situation we have here. a) Author creates a 100%

Re: [ietf-dkim] detecting header mutations after signing

2010-10-07 Thread Michael Thomas
On 10/07/2010 05:01 PM, John R. Levine wrote: I'd say that it would be better to just say that if you sign a non-compliant 5322 message that its verification is undefined, and move on. That at least matches reality, and hasn't hurt anything that I'm aware of. Except that's not the situation

Re: [ietf-dkim] detecting header mutations after signing

2010-10-07 Thread John R. Levine
this being some sort of existential threat. Can someone come up with a scenario where this really could be evil and isn't trivially fixed by... making spam filters insist that they're really receiving valid 5322 as one of their rules? If one does real whitelisting based on valid signature

Re: [ietf-dkim] detecting header mutations after signing

2010-10-07 Thread Mark Delany
I'm scratching my head to see if there is any advice we can offer to make signing and verification more robust while not changing the behavior of existing code for normal (for some definition of normal messages). A) You have to sign either all occurences of a header or none of them, and

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