Re: [ietf-dkim] New Issue: 4.2 needs new Attack Item: InconsistentSignature vs Policy Attacks

2006-01-30 Thread Hector Santos
- Original Message - From: "william(at)elan.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > SSP is ability to indicate policy for email address, i.e. when you see > address in from you can check to find if emails from that address are > supposed to be signed. If you only check policy record when you see a > s

Re: [ietf-dkim] New Issue: 4.2 needs new Attack Item: InconsistentSignature vs Policy Attacks

2006-01-30 Thread Hector Santos
- Original Message - From: "Dave Crocker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Can someone clarify how this is within scope for the > current deliverable? Hm, Dave, as requested by Jim and Stephen, I racked my brains trying to mold this NEW ISSUE entry in the best possible manner that would cater

RE: [ietf-dkim] New Issue: 4.2 needs new Attack Item: InconsistentSignature vs Policy Attacks

2006-01-31 Thread Bill.Oxley
> Direct attacks would be bad actor attempts to exploit compliant DKIM/SSP > systems. Indirect attacks would be bad actors attempts to exploit > non-compliant DKIM/SSP and rely in "social engineering" exploits. With > indirect attacks, bad actors will not emphasize on protocol correctness. > > Thes

Re: [ietf-dkim] New Issue: 4.2 needs new Attack Item: InconsistentSignature vs Policy Attacks

2006-01-31 Thread John Levine
>If I do not publish any key records and a bad actor whips up an email >purported to be from me with a fake signature attached, a non dkim >compliant mta may have a rule that states "signed messages are probably >okay" that might bypass some spam checking software. Before DKIM is >fully adopted/dep

Re: [ietf-dkim] New Issue: 4.2 needs new Attack Item: InconsistentSignature vs Policy Attacks

2006-01-31 Thread Michael Thomas
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I do not publish any key records and a bad actor whips up an email purported to be from me with a fake signature attached, a non dkim compliant mta may have a rule that states "signed messages are probably okay" that might bypass some spam checking software. Before DKI

Re: [ietf-dkim] New Issue: 4.2 needs new Attack Item: InconsistentSignature vs Policy Attacks

2006-01-31 Thread Dave Crocker
Bill, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The hacker does not need access to my zone, he just attaches a lookalike header yes " And to have *any* rule that allows bypass of defense based upon the receipt of a header from outside your control is extremely dangerous." But folks will do it anyway By "look

RE: [ietf-dkim] New Issue: 4.2 needs new Attack Item: InconsistentSignature vs Policy Attacks

2006-01-31 Thread Bill.Oxley
[ietf-dkim] New Issue: 4.2 needs new Attack Item: InconsistentSignature vs Policy Attacks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > If I do not publish any key records and a bad actor whips up an email > purported to be from me with a fake signature attached, a non dkim > compliant mta may have a rule

RE: [ietf-dkim] New Issue: 4.2 needs new Attack Item: InconsistentSignature vs Policy Attacks

2006-01-31 Thread Bill.Oxley
-dkim] New Issue: 4.2 needs new Attack Item: InconsistentSignature vs Policy Attacks Bill, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > The hacker does not need access to my zone, he just attaches a lookalike > header yes " And to have *any* rule that allows bypass of defense > based upon the recei

RE: [ietf-dkim] New Issue: 4.2 needs new Attack Item: InconsistentSignature vs Policy Attacks

2006-01-31 Thread Bill.Oxley
> A dkim compliant mta will do a dip on my dns records and find no ssp or > dk record and drop the message as non compliant. >if the signature succeeds, why do they need to check ssp? I was making an assumption that if it's the first time cox.com has hit that mta they would get the values for bot

Re: [ietf-dkim] New Issue: 4.2 needs new Attack Item: InconsistentSignature vs Policy Attacks

2006-01-31 Thread Dave Crocker
The non dkim compliant mta who hasn't deployed dkim yet or knowing much about it places a rule stating that signed messages should be allowed to travel inbound without further checking because dkim is new and safe. non-dkim compliant, but nonetheless makes a policy decision based on the pres

Re: [ietf-dkim] New Issue: 4.2 needs new Attack Item: InconsistentSignature vs Policy Attacks

2006-01-31 Thread Steve Atkins
On Jan 31, 2006, at 9:59 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Sorry, Should have been clearer. Bad guy sends a message purportedly from cox.com with a header DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=cox.com The non dkim compliant mta who hasn't deployed dkim yet or knowing muc

Re: [ietf-dkim] New Issue: 4.2 needs new Attack Item: InconsistentSignature vs Policy Attacks

2006-01-31 Thread J.D. Falk
On 2006-01-31 08:30, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I do not publish any key records and a bad actor whips up an email purported to be from me with a fake signature attached, a non dkim compliant mta may have a rule that states "signed messages are probably okay" that might bypass some spam checkin

Re: [ietf-dkim] New Issue: 4.2 needs new Attack Item: InconsistentSignature vs Policy Attacks

2006-01-31 Thread Douglas Otis
On Jan 31, 2006, at 2:51 PM, J.D. Falk wrote: On 2006-01-31 08:30, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I do not publish any key records and a bad actor whips up an email purported to be from me with a fake signature attached, a non dkim compliant mta may have a rule that states "signed messages

Re: [ietf-dkim] New Issue: 4.2 needs new Attack Item: InconsistentSignature vs Policy Attacks

2006-01-31 Thread J.D. Falk
On 2006-01-31 15:20, Douglas Otis wrote: 2. the "spammers have co-opted DomainKeys wtf omg" story was last year: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1732576,00.asp? kc=EWNKT0209KTX1K0100440 Re #2, the sky has not yet fallen. By the same token, this story points out that basing reputations

Re: [ietf-dkim] New Issue: 4.2 needs new Attack Item: InconsistentSignature vs Policy Attacks

2006-01-31 Thread Douglas Otis
On Jan 31, 2006, at 4:07 PM, J.D. Falk wrote: On 2006-01-31 15:20, Douglas Otis wrote: 2. the "spammers have co-opted DomainKeys wtf omg" story was last year: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1732576,00.asp? kc=EWNKT0209KTX1K0100440 Re #2, the sky has not yet fallen. By the same toke

Re: [ietf-dkim] New Issue: 4.2 needs new Attack Item: InconsistentSignature vs Policy Attacks

2006-02-01 Thread Hector Santos
sessment of the issue. -- Hector Santos, Santronics Software, Inc. http://www.santronics.com - Original Message - From: "Stephen Farrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jim Fenton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "IETF-DKIM" Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006

the Internet is inherently insecure (Re: [ietf-dkim] New Issue: 4.2 needs new Attack Item: InconsistentSignature vs Policy Attacks)

2006-01-31 Thread J.D. Falk
On 2006-01-31 10:09, Dave Crocker wrote: The non dkim compliant mta who hasn't deployed dkim yet or knowing much about it places a rule stating that signed messages should be allowed to travel inbound without further checking because dkim is new and safe. non-dkim compliant, but nonetheless ma