Interesting discussions. On 15 July 2016 at 06:56, Dr Pankaj Kumar <sahanipan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There are few things to understand about describing a new species based on > DNA data. > HOW DO THEY DO IT? > They sequence the DNA and try to match with existing sequences of related > species in GENBANK or BOLD or any other sources not known to me. The > sequence dont match and hence they describe the new species. > WHY SEQUENCES DON'T USUALLY MATCH? > Because all species on earth have not been sequenced. How many species > from India have been sequenced? may be 10%...... so other 90% of the > species will not match with any existing DNA sequences. > DNA IS A TOOL AND TAXONOMY CAN BE CALLED SCIENCE OR OPINION BASED SCIENCE. > DNA is a tool that can help in improvising your taxonomic skills, but just > DNA is nothing, but a sequence. > FUNGI > Fungi are a bit different as most of the times you may not be able to see > their fruiting body and hence not easy to describe unless you see it. Hence > people use DNA data to describe new species among this group. > MORPHOLOGY OVER DNA OR DNA OVER MORPHOLOGY? > At many instances you may not be able to differentiate species based on > morphology so easily because changes in DNA may bring changes in phenology > that may not be undetectable by eye. > DNA SCIENCE IS STILL DEVELOPING. > DNA science is still evolving and we have not yet understood the full > utility of it. Hence it can just be considered as utility. Why? because in > every 4-5 years scientists come out with different sequences to use for > differentiation. So far there is no universal marker for all species, not > even for just all plants. May be in future we will have such sequences. > RELIABILITY ON DNA SEQUENCES > How much can we rely on DNA sequences is a matter of judgement. I have > been working on it, and sorry to say but I have felt many times that i cant > rely on it. I sequenced my known and well identified plants and many of the > sequences matched with sequences of totally different and absurd species. > Forget about species, some of my orchid sequences matched with sequences of > FUNGI..... NOT A JOKE. > > On a friendly note, i just got a manuscript for review from Molecular > Ecology where scientists (GOOD TAXONOMISTS) have sequenced all the tuberous > orchids of the region (multiple sequences of same species) so that it will > aid in identification of orchid tubers in trade. This is one such first > study which is surely going to have a great impact for future. So now, if > someone is describing a new species and especially of the same subfamily of > orchids, then these sequences will be of great help. > > Few years back few of our own members published an article in Nature. > Title was very good but the content shocked me. > "India needs more plant taxonomists" > India, with its wide range of geographical and climatic conditions, has a > rich and varied flora of some 45,000 species — almost 7% of the world’s > flowering plants. But their documentation is seriously compromised by the > country’s dearth of plant taxonomists. Although DNA sequence data and > barcoding are well on the way to being accepted as the global standard for > species identification, India’s plant taxonomists are struggling to keep > up. A lack of proper training and infrastructure hampers > molecular-systematics studies, so the evolutionary lineages of most of the > country’s plants remain poorly understood. India’s many outstanding > botanists, familiar with regional flora, must help plant taxonomists to > advance molecular-systematics studies and improve the evolutionary > understanding of the country’s rich biodiversity. > > But their documentation is seriously compromised by the country’s dearth > of plant taxonomists. - ONE OF THE AUTHOR HAS WORKED WITH BSI. > DNA sequence data and barcoding are well on the way to being accepted as > the global standard for species identification, India’s plant taxonomists > are struggling to keep up. NO, DNA SEQUENCING AND BARCODING IS A TOOL AND > CAN AID IN SPECIES IDENTIFICATION BUT CAN'T SOLELY DO SPECIES > IDENTIFICATION. ALL THE NEW SPECIES I HAVE DESCRIBED SO FAR, I HAVE NEVER > USED DNA DATA, EXCEPT FOR MY NEXT SPECIES WHICH WILL BE PUBLISHED SOON. BUT > YOU WILL SEE IN IT, ABOUT HOW AND WHY MY OPINION DOESNT MATCH WITH THE > EXISTING DNA DATA. > India’s many outstanding botanists, familiar with regional flora, must > help plant taxonomists to advance molecular-systematics studies and improve > the evolutionary understanding of the country’s rich biodiversity. - IT > GIVES A FEELING THAT THE AUTHORS THOUGHT THAT ONLY THOSE ARE TAXONOMISTS > WHO KNOW MOLECULAR SYSTEMATICS AND REST ARE BOTANISTS, WHICH IS WRONG. > INFACT WHEN I HAD A CHAT WITH MY FRIEND WHO IS ONE OF THE AUTHORS, HE SAID > HE DIDNT MEAN THAT!! > > I attended the International Barcoding of life conference two years back > where those barcoding Canadians recommended that we dont even have to name > new species, just give them codes, because we dont have trained > taxonomists. I would say WE DO HAVE TRAINED TAXONOMISTS, YOU NEED TO GIVE > THEM A CHANCE. YOU DONT FUND THEM, YOU DONT SPONSOR THEM, YOU DONT PROVIDE > JOB TO THEM, THEN YOU MAKE A HUE AND CRY THAT THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH > TAXONOMISTS??? WHEN THERE WAS JOB CUT AT KEW, MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO LOST > THEIR JOBS WERE ACTUALLY TAXONOMISTS. > > India already has lot of plant taxonomists who go unrecognised and are > jobless and many of them left the country because taxonomists lack the > recognition. New generation of students find taxonomy to be a mediocre > subject and hesitate to undertake such studies. DNA barcoding will > certainly help in better understanding of species, but DNA barcoding is not > the standard to describe a new species. > > India is one of the very very few countries in the world where they have > an organisation called BSI who hire ONLY taxonomists. We should be proud of > it and we should make it stronger. > > These are my personal views. The authors of the nature article are my good > friends, and I know both of you will be offended, so I say sorry in > advance...... > > > > > > On Friday, 15 July 2016 01:08:10 UTC+8, tchakrab wrote: >> >> Respected/Dear All, >> >> I am sharing herewith an article which appeared in Taxon in 2014 on the >> above subject. I request you all to kindly comment and give your valuable >> opinion and suggestions which will enrich our knowledge. >> With kind regards, >> Tapas. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "efloraofindia" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to indiantreepix+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to indiantreepix@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- With regards, J.M.Garg 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images). The whole world uses my Image Resource <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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