Thanks Tapas Ji for sharing the interesting article... The authors proposed policy lines (proposals) for describing new taxa, of course it is required to set the guidelines. As Pankaj Ji have told, it is still too early to base the taxonomic affinities entirely on DNA, and giving only codes as per the other article is also not going to make the things more scientific, rather will add to the complexity... I also join Pankaj Ji to agree that we have a large number of taxonomists and dedicated field workers, who are doing wonderful work in all corners of our country of a large geographical area and one of the richest biodiversity spots on earth. Hopefully, the article, as expected by the authors, will be discussed for future discussions on the Code. Thanks again Tapas Ji for this link, and the acknowledgement revealed how a sleepless night ended with these discussions...!! Thanks..
On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 6:56 AM, Dr Pankaj Kumar <sahanipan...@gmail.com> wrote: > There are few things to understand about describing a new species based on > DNA data. > HOW DO THEY DO IT? > They sequence the DNA and try to match with existing sequences of related > species in GENBANK or BOLD or any other sources not known to me. The > sequence dont match and hence they describe the new species. > WHY SEQUENCES DON'T USUALLY MATCH? > Because all species on earth have not been sequenced. How many species > from India have been sequenced? may be 10%...... so other 90% of the > species will not match with any existing DNA sequences. > DNA IS A TOOL AND TAXONOMY CAN BE CALLED SCIENCE OR OPINION BASED SCIENCE. > DNA is a tool that can help in improvising your taxonomic skills, but just > DNA is nothing, but a sequence. > FUNGI > Fungi are a bit different as most of the times you may not be able to see > their fruiting body and hence not easy to describe unless you see it. Hence > people use DNA data to describe new species among this group. > MORPHOLOGY OVER DNA OR DNA OVER MORPHOLOGY? > At many instances you may not be able to differentiate species based on > morphology so easily because changes in DNA may bring changes in phenology > that may not be undetectable by eye. > DNA SCIENCE IS STILL DEVELOPING. > DNA science is still evolving and we have not yet understood the full > utility of it. Hence it can just be considered as utility. Why? because in > every 4-5 years scientists come out with different sequences to use for > differentiation. So far there is no universal marker for all species, not > even for just all plants. May be in future we will have such sequences. > RELIABILITY ON DNA SEQUENCES > How much can we rely on DNA sequences is a matter of judgement. I have > been working on it, and sorry to say but I have felt many times that i cant > rely on it. I sequenced my known and well identified plants and many of the > sequences matched with sequences of totally different and absurd species. > Forget about species, some of my orchid sequences matched with sequences of > FUNGI..... NOT A JOKE. > > On a friendly note, i just got a manuscript for review from Molecular > Ecology where scientists (GOOD TAXONOMISTS) have sequenced all the tuberous > orchids of the region (multiple sequences of same species) so that it will > aid in identification of orchid tubers in trade. This is one such first > study which is surely going to have a great impact for future. So now, if > someone is describing a new species and especially of the same subfamily of > orchids, then these sequences will be of great help. > > Few years back few of our own members published an article in Nature. > Title was very good but the content shocked me. > "India needs more plant taxonomists" > India, with its wide range of geographical and climatic conditions, has a > rich and varied flora of some 45,000 species — almost 7% of the world’s > flowering plants. But their documentation is seriously compromised by the > country’s dearth of plant taxonomists. Although DNA sequence data and > barcoding are well on the way to being accepted as the global standard for > species identification, India’s plant taxonomists are struggling to keep > up. A lack of proper training and infrastructure hampers > molecular-systematics studies, so the evolutionary lineages of most of the > country’s plants remain poorly understood. India’s many outstanding > botanists, familiar with regional flora, must help plant taxonomists to > advance molecular-systematics studies and improve the evolutionary > understanding of the country’s rich biodiversity. > > But their documentation is seriously compromised by the country’s dearth > of plant taxonomists. - ONE OF THE AUTHOR HAS WORKED WITH BSI. > DNA sequence data and barcoding are well on the way to being accepted as > the global standard for species identification, India’s plant taxonomists > are struggling to keep up. NO, DNA SEQUENCING AND BARCODING IS A TOOL AND > CAN AID IN SPECIES IDENTIFICATION BUT CAN'T SOLELY DO SPECIES > IDENTIFICATION. ALL THE NEW SPECIES I HAVE DESCRIBED SO FAR, I HAVE NEVER > USED DNA DATA, EXCEPT FOR MY NEXT SPECIES WHICH WILL BE PUBLISHED SOON. BUT > YOU WILL SEE IN IT, ABOUT HOW AND WHY MY OPINION DOESNT MATCH WITH THE > EXISTING DNA DATA. > India’s many outstanding botanists, familiar with regional flora, must > help plant taxonomists to advance molecular-systematics studies and improve > the evolutionary understanding of the country’s rich biodiversity. - IT > GIVES A FEELING THAT THE AUTHORS THOUGHT THAT ONLY THOSE ARE TAXONOMISTS > WHO KNOW MOLECULAR SYSTEMATICS AND REST ARE BOTANISTS, WHICH IS WRONG. > INFACT WHEN I HAD A CHAT WITH MY FRIEND WHO IS ONE OF THE AUTHORS, HE SAID > HE DIDNT MEAN THAT!! > > I attended the International Barcoding of life conference two years back > where those barcoding Canadians recommended that we dont even have to name > new species, just give them codes, because we dont have trained > taxonomists. I would say WE DO HAVE TRAINED TAXONOMISTS, YOU NEED TO GIVE > THEM A CHANCE. YOU DONT FUND THEM, YOU DONT SPONSOR THEM, YOU DONT PROVIDE > JOB TO THEM, THEN YOU MAKE A HUE AND CRY THAT THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH > TAXONOMISTS??? WHEN THERE WAS JOB CUT AT KEW, MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO LOST > THEIR JOBS WERE ACTUALLY TAXONOMISTS. > > India already has lot of plant taxonomists who go unrecognised and are > jobless and many of them left the country because taxonomists lack the > recognition. New generation of students find taxonomy to be a mediocre > subject and hesitate to undertake such studies. DNA barcoding will > certainly help in better understanding of species, but DNA barcoding is not > the standard to describe a new species. > > India is one of the very very few countries in the world where they have > an organisation called BSI who hire ONLY taxonomists. We should be proud of > it and we should make it stronger. > > These are my personal views. The authors of the nature article are my good > friends, and I know both of you will be offended, so I say sorry in > advance...... > > > > > > On Friday, 15 July 2016 01:08:10 UTC+8, tchakrab wrote: >> >> Respected/Dear All, >> >> I am sharing herewith an article which appeared in Taxon in 2014 on the >> above subject. I request you all to kindly comment and give your valuable >> opinion and suggestions which will enrich our knowledge. >> With kind regards, >> Tapas. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "efloraofindia" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to indiantreepix+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to indiantreepix@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Regards, Dr. Nidhan Singh Assistant Professor Department of Botany I.B. (PG) College Panipat-132103 Haryana Ph.: 09416371227 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to indiantreepix@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
