---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Lalithamba Avadhanam <alalitha...@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 13:48 Subject: Re: [itpmods:14627] Fwd: Confusion regarding Verbascum chinense To: <itpm...@googlegroups.com> Cc: Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com>
Verbascum from Kodaikanal2008; and from verbascum from Nahan (few images look different from typical V.chinense) On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 1:32 PM J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> wrote: > Here is the description from FBI as per IBIS Flora: > Verbascum celsioides Benth > <https://flora.indianbiodiversity.org/content/verbascum-celsioides-benth> > .: > *Benth, in DC. Prodr.* x. 229 ; glandular-pubescent,* lower leaves > pinnatisect, upper auricled cordate acuminate, *flowers racemose. > > KUMAON ; at the foot of the hills, Edgeworth. The PUNJAB ; at Hussan, > Aitchison. > > Stem 2-3 ft. *Leaves 4-6 in., *sessile or petioled,* irregularly toothed > and lobulate*. Flowers in a long loose raceme ; bracts ovate-lanceolate ; > *pedicels > 1/2-3/4 in.* Sepals oblong, obtuse. Corolla 1/2 in. diam. *Stamens 4-5 ; > filaments woolly*.—This species, being sometimes tetrandrous, unites > Verbascum with Celsia. > > Celsia coromandeliana Vahl > <https://flora.indianbiodiversity.org/content/celsia-coromandeliana-vahl-0> in > FBI: > *Vahl Symb*. iii. 79 ; finely pubescent or tomentose, glandular above, > *root-leaves > petioled lyrate-pinnatifid, cauline sessile oblong-ovate toothed,* > racemes simple or panicled, sepals entire or toothed. Benth, in DC. Prodr. > x. 246 ; Roxb. Fl, Ind. iii. 100 ; Wall. Cat. 2631 ; Wight Ill. t. 165, bis > f. 1, right hand, and Ic. t. 1406 ; Dalz. & Gibs. Bomb. Fl. 176 ; Boiss. > Fl. Orient, iv. 358. C. viscosa, Roth Catal. Bot. ii. 69, and iii. 50 ; > Wight in Hook. Journ. Bot: i. (1834) 228, t. 129 ; Nees in Trans. Linn. > Soc. xvii. 81, in part. > > Throughout INDIA ; from the Punjab to Ceylon and Pegu, ascending to 5000 > ft.— DISTRIB. Affghanistan, Ava, China. > > Annual. Stem 2-3 ft., stout or slender. *Leaves 2-4 in., the large > terminal lobe usually oblong, obtuse, toothed.* Raceme 1-2 ft. ; *pedicels > 1/4-1/3 in. *; bracts ovate, shorter. Sepals oblong or ovate. Corolla 1/2 > in. diam., yellow. *Filaments all hairy. *Capsule subglobose, 1/4-1/3 in. > diam. > > Celsia coromandeliana Vahl in Flora of Bombay Presidency by Cooke > <https://flora.indianbiodiversity.org/content/celsia-coromandeliana-vahl>: > *Vahl, Symb. Bot. v. 3 (1794) p. 79.* An annual herb ; stem 2-3 ft. high, > hairy, often branched near the top. *Leaves : radical 2-4 by 3/4-1.1/2 > in., on long petioles, lyrate, compound or pinnatisect, with several small > leaflets or segments at the base and a large ovate-oblong subacute terminal > lobe ; lower cauline leaves similar but smaller, and with shorter petioles > ; upper cauline leaves gradually becoming smaller and sessile, passing into > bracts, all coarsely dentate, more or less hairy on both sides. *Flowers > yellow, in simple or branched terminal racemes 1-2 ft. long ; rhachis > glandular-pubescent ; *pedicels longer than the calyx, > glandular-pubescent ;* *bracts (or floral leaves) foliaceous, ovate, > acute, sessile, gradually becoming smaller upwards. *Calyx rather less > than 1/4 in. long, deeply divided, glandular-pubescent ; lobes 1/6 in. > long, linear-oblong, subacute. Corolla rotate, 1/2 in. in diam. ; lobes 5, > rounded. *Filaments densely bearded with purple hairs. *Ovary globose, > glabrous ; style glabrous. Capsules 1/4-1/3 in. in diam., subglobose. Seeds > 1/50 in. long, oblong, truncate, warted. Fl. B. I. v. 4, p. 251 ; Dalz. & > Gibs. p. 176 ; Wight, Icon. t. 1406 ; Aitch. Pb. & Sind Pl. p. 105 ; Trim. > Fl. Ceyl. v. 3, p. 240 ; Woodr, in Journ. Bomb. Nat. v. 12 (1898) p. 174 ; > Watt, Dict. Econ. Prod. v. 2, p. 241. Celsia Arcturus, Grah. Cat. p. 141 > (not of Jacq.).—Flowers : Jan.-May. VERN. Kutaki. Konkan : Law ! Deccan ; > waste places, Dalzell & Gibson ; Poona, Cooke !, Wood¬row ! ; Raighar Fort, > Dalzell & Gibson. Gujarat : Woodrow. Sind : Stocks ! — Distrib. *Throughout > India ; Ceylon, Afghanistan, Ava, China*. The plant has some repute in > native medicine. See Watt, Dict. Econ. Prod. l. c. > > Even from the above, I am not able to bifurcate our posts at Verbascum > chinense > <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/s/scrophulariaceae/verbascum/verbascum-chinense> > . > May I request you to have a look at Verbascum chinense > <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/s/scrophulariaceae/verbascum/verbascum-chinense> > and > point out one post which is different from others? > > > On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 12:20, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Garg ji >> Verbascum coromandelianum (Vahl) Kuntze as understood as distinct species >> is described in FBI as V. celsioides Benth. It will have 5 stamens but >> sometimes 4 (hence confusion), lower leaves are pinnatisect , 4-6 inch long >> (lyrate-pinnatifid, 2-4 inch long in chinense), pedicels 12-20 mm long >> (only 4-8 mm long in Chinense), filaments woolly (hairy in chinense) >> All three are described in FBI, we can always find from there. >> >> >> >> >> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> Retired Associate Professor >> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> Mob: 9810359089 >> https://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >> >> >> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 11:24 AM J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Thanks, Singh ji, >>> I am asking for the difference between *Verbascum chinense* (Linnaeus) >>> Santapau & *Verbascum coromandelianum *(Vahl) Kuntze. >>> >>> Flora of China >>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=210002271> >>> mentions >>> *Verbascum chinense* (Linnaeus) Santapau (syn: *Verbascum >>> coromandelianum* (Vahl) Kuntze), while POWO reports both of them (*Verbascum >>> chinense* (Linnaeus) Santapau & *Verbascum coromandelianum *(Vahl) >>> Kuntze)) as independent species. >>> >>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 09:58, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Verbascum chinense is what was described in Flora of British India as >>>> Celsia coromandelianum >>>> Differences are so obvious >>>> V. thapsus: stamens 5, basal leaves not divided, cauline strongly >>>> decurrent, densely woolly >>>> V. chinensis: stamens 4, basal leaves lyrate-pinnatifid, cauline not >>>> decurrent, not densely woolly. >>>> The species are well represented on Flowers of India >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>> Mob: 9810359089 >>>> https://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 9:18 AM J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, Anil ji, >>>>> Flora of China >>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=210002271> >>>>> mentions >>>>> *Verbascum chinense* (Linnaeus) Santapau (syn: *Verbascum >>>>> coromandelianum* (Vahl) Kuntze), while POWO reports both of them >>>>> (*Verbascum >>>>> chinense* (Linnaeus) Santapau & *Verbascum coromandelianum *(Vahl) >>>>> Kuntze)) as independent species. >>>>> We do not know the difference between the two. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 08:26, Dr. Anil Kumar Thakur < >>>>> anilthakur2...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> You are right, Garg ji >>>>>> But the confusion arises when one data base considers some species as >>>>>> accepted and the other as a synonym of some other name. >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2020, 7:16 am J.M. Garg, <jmga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, Anil ji, >>>>>>> POWO is not the ultimate solution. Catalogue of Life is far ahead in >>>>>>> many families, particularly those which are not there in WCSP from Kew. >>>>>>> Both needs to consulted simultaneously where species are not listed >>>>>>> in WCSP. >>>>>>> However, any inputs in this matter. >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>> J. M. Garg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, 3 Sep, 2020, 10:49 pm Dr. Anil Kumar Thakur, < >>>>>>> anilthakur2...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Garg ji, there are many such problems with closely related species >>>>>>>> on different databases. Therefore, I consult only POWO at present. >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, 3 Sep 2020, 9:30 pm J.M. Garg, <jmga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>>>>>>>> From: J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2020 at 21:29 >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Confusion regarding Verbascum chinense >>>>>>>>> To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Flora of China >>>>>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=210002271> >>>>>>>>> mentions >>>>>>>>> *Verbascum chinense* (Linnaeus) Santapau(syn: *Scrophularia >>>>>>>>> chinensis* Linnaeus; *Celsia coromandeliana* Vahl; *Verbascum >>>>>>>>> coromandelianum* (Vahl) Kuntze; *V. sinense* H. Léveillé & >>>>>>>>> Giraud). >>>>>>>>> I could not find any clue on searching the net. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 at 21:27, J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Catalogue of life >>>>>>>>>> <https://www.catalogueoflife.org/col/details/species/id/d55b5c237016ce7779b35b1514454795> >>>>>>>>>> gives *Verbascum chinense* (L.) Santapau as a syn. of *Verbascum >>>>>>>>>> coromandelianum* subsp. *sinense* (L.) D. Mc Kean with >>>>>>>>>> distribution as China (Guangxi, Sichuan, Yunnan), Pakistan >>>>>>>>>> (Sind, Pakistani Punjab, Rawalpindi, N.W.Frontier Prov., Peshawar), >>>>>>>>>> Jammu & >>>>>>>>>> Kashmir (Kashmir). >>>>>>>>>> POWO >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:810918-1> >>>>>>>>>> gives *Verbascum chinense *(L.) Santapau with native range is >>>>>>>>>> Afghanistan to S. China and Indo-China (Afghanistan, Bangladesh, >>>>>>>>>> Cambodia, China South-Central, China Southeast, India, Laos, >>>>>>>>>> Thailand, West >>>>>>>>>> Himalaya) >>>>>>>>>> POWO >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:891511-1> >>>>>>>>>> also gives *Verbascum coromandelianum* subsp. *sinense *with native >>>>>>>>>> to China South-Central. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Catalogue of life >>>>>>>>>> <https://www.catalogueoflife.org/col/details/species/id/d55b5c237016ce7779b35b1514454795> >>>>>>>>>> also gives *Verbascum coromandelianum *subsp. *coromandelianum* >>>>>>>>>> with distribution as Afghanistan (Kandahar), ?Pakistan, India, >>>>>>>>>> Myanmar [Burma] (Ayeyarwady, Bago, Mandalay, Yangon), NE-Thailand, >>>>>>>>>> Sri >>>>>>>>>> Lanka, Laos, Cambodia, India, Bangladesh. >>>>>>>>>> POWO >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:810960-1#children> >>>>>>>>>> gives *Verbascum coromandelianum *with native range is E. & SE. >>>>>>>>>> Afghanistan to Myanmar (Afghanistan, India, Myanmar, Sri Lanka). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We have mainly only two species in India as per details at >>>>>>>>>> Verbascum >>>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/s/scrophulariaceae/verbascum> >>>>>>>>>> (*V. chinense *and *V.thapsus*) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can anybody help in clearing this confusion? What should be the >>>>>>>>>> status of our *V.chinense* >>>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/s/scrophulariaceae> >>>>>>>>>> ? >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "ITPmods" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to itpmods+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CA%2BiuSFCxjaHjWbdqBCG85XM_5VPb6kcFf%2BfH7DSO4Ts%2Biti_Xw%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CA%2BiuSFCxjaHjWbdqBCG85XM_5VPb6kcFf%2BfH7DSO4Ts%2Biti_Xw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "ITPmods" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to itpmods+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CAEWs%3DZkXgGZrsuDdSwNt24G70q0KdO7%2BKua-koyp8scLyTxvfA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CAEWs%3DZkXgGZrsuDdSwNt24G70q0KdO7%2BKua-koyp8scLyTxvfA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "ITPmods" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to itpmods+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CA%2BiuSFCCvVYnZHya4E3CZC%2BNwQiLxfMGa6aaPiZiacE6m08Bng%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CA%2BiuSFCCvVYnZHya4E3CZC%2BNwQiLxfMGa6aaPiZiacE6m08Bng%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "ITPmods" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to itpmods+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CAEWs%3DZnvd_VB4ikrGsHoqmhVTRNQ3J3ycmJfi4j1e6U7SMuDXA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CAEWs%3DZnvd_VB4ikrGsHoqmhVTRNQ3J3ycmJfi4j1e6U7SMuDXA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> With regards, >>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "ITPmods" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to itpmods+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CA%2BiuSFCjnMUWtVrQU8w_AhWWsHWNNFesBYUx5knB-c5e3w44zA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CA%2BiuSFCjnMUWtVrQU8w_AhWWsHWNNFesBYUx5knB-c5e3w44zA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "ITPmods" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to itpmods+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CAHiXKpXgGQU7qySGv05t1bk-x%2BzFYrA-miRg9yZD1pYCTVO%3DxQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CAHiXKpXgGQU7qySGv05t1bk-x%2BzFYrA-miRg9yZD1pYCTVO%3DxQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> With regards, >>> J.M.Garg >>> >> > > -- > With regards, > J.M.Garg > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ITPmods" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to itpmods+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CA%2BiuSFAA9A--CxgxgY47WsOrpzzo_Bhw81_jgOYpgNQVqZXNdQ%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CA%2BiuSFAA9A--CxgxgY47WsOrpzzo_Bhw81_jgOYpgNQVqZXNdQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- A.Lalithamba -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ITPmods" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to itpmods+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CAOd090uA062B%2BkwwW6UzNaMK3CSNup2i87O7tQ5Wa5ba1T3D0Q%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CAOd090uA062B%2BkwwW6UzNaMK3CSNup2i87O7tQ5Wa5ba1T3D0Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> . -- With regards, J.M.Garg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CA%2BiuSFCYPh3qHj5py7bw_uyB7b9XCUz2XibHR5ybaA4RLP6JmQ%40mail.gmail.com.
