Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Chad Emrys wrote: > I'm not arguing about learning another culture. The argument is that an > error message that should be straight forward, isn't. You misunderstand my point. It isn't straightforward for -you- because that isn't your native language. Thus the cu

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

>From a completely separate stand point. The ability to customise what token >names show up as in an error seems like a much better solution -- James Butler Sent from my iPhone On 30 Oct 2010, at 21:41, "Chad Emrys" wrote: > On 10/30/2010 03:32 PM, Etienne Kneuss wrote: >> lemon would indeed g

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 10/30/2010 03:32 PM, Etienne Kneuss wrote: lemon would indeed get rid of actual "names" for such tokens, and would rather display "unnexpected ::". The problem with lemon is that it turns out to still be a tad bit slower than yacc, with some complications on the grammar side (the compiler hel

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On Oct 30 19:44:08, Peter Lind wrote: > On 30 October 2010 19:18, Chad Emrys wrote: > > On 10/30/2010 11:58 AM, Daniel P. Brown wrote: > >> > >> On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 12:47, Chad Emrys  wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> It's not that I'm that sure of myself, it's that I believe that my > >>> opinion > >>>

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 10/30/2010 03:21 PM, Peter Lind wrote: On 30 October 2010 22:13, Chad Emrys wrote: *snip* I actually know Etienne, he does spend some of his time fighting the good fight of supporting PHP :p. Anyway he has said the lemon parser project is going kind of slow as it is proving to be more

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 10/30/2010 03:21 PM, Peter Lind wrote: On 30 October 2010 22:13, Chad Emrys wrote: *snip* I actually know Etienne, he does spend some of his time fighting the good fight of supporting PHP :p. Anyway he has said the lemon parser project is going kind of slow as it is proving to be more

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 30 October 2010 22:13, Chad Emrys wrote: *snip* > > I actually know Etienne, he does spend some of his time fighting the good > fight of supporting PHP :p.  Anyway he has said the lemon parser project is > going kind of slow as it is proving to be more difficult because some of the > weirdnes

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 10/30/2010 12:44 PM, Peter Lind wrote: On 30 October 2010 19:18, Chad Emrys wrote: On 10/30/2010 11:58 AM, Daniel P. Brown wrote: On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 12:47, Chad Emryswrote: It's not that I'm that sure of myself, it's that I believe that my opinion has merit, and

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 10/30/2010 12:44 PM, Jack Timmons wrote: On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Chad Emrys wrote: I just know the bigger culture of those who use PHP, and some of them are quite annoyed by the dismissive nature of the maintainers who are quite at odds to what the majority of the community w

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 10/30/2010 12:57 PM, Mark Skilbeck wrote: On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 12:44:41 -0500 Jack Timmons wrote: Also, as one who also answers other's questions (although not IRC, because its my experience most people asking/*answering* questions on there are dbags), FTFY. That's just rude,

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 10/30/2010 01:02 PM, James Butler wrote: Are you supporting users who you provide a shared hosting embodiment too, and do you control binary installations on the enviroments? If so then possibly patching source for you installs maybe the easiest and quickest solution. If we knew the nature o

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

Are you supporting users who you provide a shared hosting embodiment too, and do you control binary installations on the enviroments? If so then possibly patching source for you installs maybe the easiest and quickest solution. If we knew the nature of your support requirements, then we could pos

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 12:44:41 -0500 Jack Timmons wrote: > Also, as one who also answers other's questions (although not IRC, > because its my experience most people asking/*answering* questions on > there are dbags), FTFY. -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, v

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Chad Emrys wrote: >  I just know the bigger culture of those who use PHP, and some of them are > quite annoyed by the dismissive nature of the maintainers who are quite at > odds to what the majority of the community want or needs. As one of those people who "use

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 30 October 2010 19:18, Chad Emrys wrote: > On 10/30/2010 11:58 AM, Daniel P. Brown wrote: >> >> On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 12:47, Chad Emrys  wrote: >> >>> >>> It's not that I'm that sure of myself, it's that I believe that my >>> opinion >>> has merit, and I keep seeing the exact same argument ov

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 10/30/2010 11:58 AM, Daniel P. Brown wrote: On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 12:47, Chad Emrys wrote: It's not that I'm that sure of myself, it's that I believe that my opinion has merit, and I keep seeing the exact same argument over and over again that I believe is not a very good argument (The

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 12:47, Chad Emrys wrote: > > It's not that I'm that sure of myself, it's that I believe that my opinion > has merit, and I keep seeing the exact same argument over and over again > that I believe is not a very good argument (They can just google it thing). >  Some other peo

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 10/30/2010 11:43 AM, James Butler wrote: If it ain't broken don't fix it. Change for the sake of it is a bad thing. It does things like introduce bugs etc. Q1) is it broken? Q2) if yes exactly what is broken Q3) does the proposes fix solve the root cause? I'm not sure changing the token na

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 10/30/2010 11:41 AM, Daniel P. Brown wrote: On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 12:35, Chad Emrys wrote: Most likely not, we don't get tons of questions about other parser errors, unless the person refuses to read the error message to begin with (Those can't be fixed, true. But this for those peopl

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

If it ain't broken don't fix it. Change for the sake of it is a bad thing. It does things like introduce bugs etc. Q1) is it broken? Q2) if yes exactly what is broken Q3) does the proposes fix solve the root cause? I'm not sure changing the token name is the correct fix to people not knowing w

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 12:35, Chad Emrys wrote: > > Most likely not, we don't get tons of questions about other parser errors, > unless the person refuses to read the error message to begin with (Those > can't be fixed, true.  But this for those people that DO read the messages, > which is greate

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 10/30/2010 03:46 AM, Mike Van Riel wrote: On 30 okt 2010, at 09:34, Chad Emrys wrote: On 10/30/2010 02:16 AM, Peter Lind wrote: On 30 October 2010 09:09, Mike Van Riel wrote: * snip * (additionally I wonder why people ask such a simple question on IRC whilst googling provides your a

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 10/30/2010 09:55 AM, Daniel Brown wrote: On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 06:50, Daniel Jänecke wrote: Well, isn't the problem here more people asking on IRC rather than using a search engine before? Renaming will not solve that. In this case, one might argue that it would. Instead o

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 10/30/2010 09:55 AM, Daniel Brown wrote: On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 06:50, Daniel Jänecke wrote: Well, isn't the problem here more people asking on IRC rather than using a search engine before? Renaming will not solve that. In this case, one might argue that it would. Instead o

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 10/30/2010 05:50 AM, Daniel Jänecke wrote: On 30.10.2010 08:34, Chad Emrys wrote: Well Rasmus, I wish you would hang out more in ##php on freenode. (I see you there every so often) But we do get that question about that thing a lot. And even some rage, and I have to cool them off with

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] svn: /php/php-src/ branches/PHP_5_3/NEWS branches/PHP_5_3/ext/standard/file.c branches/PHP_5_3/ext/standard/file.h branches/PHP_5_3/ext/standard/ftp_fopen_wrapper.c branche

On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 16:56:36 +0100, Pierre Joye wrote: This directive is documented only to be used with FTP. The documentation was wrong, and has also been fixed. According to the bug report, this directive has been used for http for the last 8 years. Yes it would be nice to fully su

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] svn: /php/php-src/ branches/PHP_5_3/NEWS branches/PHP_5_3/ext/standard/file.c branches/PHP_5_3/ext/standard/file.h branches/PHP_5_3/ext/standard/ftp_fopen_wrapper.c branche

hi, On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Gustavo Lopes wrote: > The From: header is actually valid in http (see section 14.21 of RFC 2616) > and is appropriately used in PHP, as it is. > > Yes, this should arguably be a context option for http/ftp wrappers, though > one could argue it's a global se

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 11:30:04PM -0700, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > with unfamiliar terms every day. I wouldn't mind having a few more > non-English identifiers in PHP actually. I don't know if i can make suggestions as an outsider. However, i really like the dutch language and it would be really c

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

As a further reason, (not that I think that's it needed) When doing anything vaguely specialist, e.g engineering, medicine, sport, you require a precise set of terminology so two or more people can communicate clearly. The result of this is that if you want to play in a domain, you must be pre

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 06:50, Daniel Jänecke wrote: > > Well, isn't the problem here more people asking on IRC rather than using > a search engine before? Renaming will not solve that. In this case, one might argue that it would. Instead of "what's a T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM?" you would have,

RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] svn: /php/php-src/ branches/PHP_5_3/NEWS branches/PHP_5_3/ext/standard/file.c branches/PHP_5_3/ext/standard/file.h branches/PHP_5_3/ext/standard/ftp_fopen_wrapper.c branche

The From: header is actually valid in http (see section 14.21 of RFC 2616) and is appropriately used in PHP, as it is. Yes, this should arguably be a context option for http/ftp wrappers, though one could argue it's a global setting that happens to reflect on those wrappers. In any case, that i

[PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] svn: /php/php-src/ branches/PHP_5_3/NEWS branches/PHP_5_3/ext/standard/file.c branches/PHP_5_3/ext/standard/file.h branches/PHP_5_3/ext/standard/ftp_fopen_wrapper.c branches/PH

hi, Removing the From header for non ftp request sounds good as it is invalid. However I don't see the need to introduce a global ini setting. This kind of information are protocol specific and should be defined either manually in a context (as shown in the report reproduce code) or as a context o

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 30.10.2010 08:34, Chad Emrys wrote: > Well Rasmus, I wish you would hang out more in ##php on freenode. (I > see you there every so often) But we do get that question about that > thing a lot. And even some rage, and I have to cool them off with all > the reasons you and Andi are giving me r

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 30 okt 2010, at 09:34, Chad Emrys wrote: On 10/30/2010 02:16 AM, Peter Lind wrote: On 30 October 2010 09:09, Mike Van Riel wrote: * snip * (additionally I wonder why people ask such a simple question on IRC whilst googling provides your answer faster..) Most of the people coming

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 10/30/2010 10:01 AM, Richard Quadling wrote: > On 30 October 2010 02:51, Chad Emrys wrote: >> What is in a name anyway? > Would a T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM by any other name make a difference? > > To provide a counterargument, it certainly would. I don't consider myself an inexperienced PHP devel

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 30 October 2010 02:51, Chad Emrys wrote: > What is in a name anyway? Would a T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM by any other name make a difference? -- Richard Quadling Twitter : EE : Zend @RQuadling : e-e.com/M_248814.html : bit.ly/9O8vFY -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To u

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 30 October 2010 09:34, Chad Emrys wrote: > On 10/30/2010 02:16 AM, Peter Lind wrote: >> >> On 30 October 2010 09:09, Mike Van Riel  wrote: >> >> * snip * >> >> >>> >>> (additionally I wonder why people ask such a simple question on IRC >>> whilst >>> googling provides your answer faster..) >>>

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 10/30/2010 02:16 AM, Peter Lind wrote: On 30 October 2010 09:09, Mike Van Riel wrote: * snip * (additionally I wonder why people ask such a simple question on IRC whilst googling provides your answer faster..) Most of the people coming to ##php on freenode asking questions like

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 10/30/2010 02:11 AM, Peter Lind wrote: Den 2010 10 30 03:51 skrev "Chad Emrys" >: * snip * > What is in a name anyway? There's something VERY ironic about a statement like that given what you're asking for ... Regards Peter It was intentional ;p, glad you cau

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 10/30/2010 02:09 AM, Mike Van Riel wrote: On 30 okt 2010, at 08:34, Sebastian Bergmann wrote: On 10/30/2010 11:53 AM, Andi Gutmans wrote: I would prefer this was not changed. +1 (for the same reasons) I agree with Andi, Rasmus and the other people in favor. This token name is part of

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 30 October 2010 09:09, Mike Van Riel wrote: * snip * > (additionally I wonder why people ask such a simple question on IRC whilst > googling provides your answer faster..) Most of the people coming to ##php on freenode asking questions like that have a hard time learning (on their own or at

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

Den 2010 10 30 03:51 skrev "Chad Emrys" : * snip * > What is in a name anyway? There's something VERY ironic about a statement like that given what you're asking for ... Regards Peter

Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

On 30 okt 2010, at 08:34, Sebastian Bergmann wrote: On 10/30/2010 11:53 AM, Andi Gutmans wrote: I would prefer this was not changed. +1 (for the same reasons) I agree with Andi, Rasmus and the other people in favor. This token name is part of the history of PHP and adds to it's uniquen