> I've worked on PHP (and non-PHP) applications with (tens of) millions of
lines of code
Grats, you're a hero. Now, you're a hero.
You can solve the application in your paper notebook. That does not explain
why computers should know some correctness and not help you, because you're
a hero.
I now
On Thu, Feb 8, 2024 at 8:57 PM Григорий Senior PHP / Разработчик Web
<6562...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 1. Do some benchmark with
>
> ```
>
> function a($a, $b)
> {
> return $a + $b;
> }
>
> function aa($a, $b)
> {
> throw new \Exception();
>
> return $a + $b;
> }
>
> $bag = [];
>
> $mt
1. Do some benchmark with
```
>From that point of view you're absolutely correct.
I want to use json_last_error() with global state, but with the ability to
manually change the state size to prevent memory overflow.
So I suggested it because the count of bad code will grow in arithmetic
progression because of the times on the
On Thu, Feb 8, 2024, at 11:15 AM, Григорий Senior PHP / Разработчик Web wrote:
> Just because PHPStan is a ready solution for design errors that you can
> predict.
> My case is about errors that you detect later, after the design is
> finished, PHPStan shows you that "all done!".
>
> Because it's n
Just because PHPStan is a ready solution for design errors that you can
predict.
My case is about errors that you detect later, after the design is
finished, PHPStan shows you that "all done!".
Because it's not \LogicExceptions (types, mappings), it's all
\RuntimeExceptions... You have to implemen
On Thu, Feb 8, 2024, 12:12 Alexander Pravdin wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 8, 2024 at 6:25 PM Григорий Senior PHP / Разработчик Web
> <6562...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > PHPStan is out the case.
> >
>
> May I know why is it out?
>
> I'm actively using it in my projects and it helps me a lot to not
> relax
On Thu, Feb 8, 2024 at 6:25 PM Григорий Senior PHP / Разработчик Web
<6562...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> PHPStan is out the case.
>
May I know why is it out?
I'm actively using it in my projects and it helps me a lot to not
relax and write safe code. It also helps a lot in cleaning up legacy
code. Som
Ok, I understand your position. Want explanations about personal behavior -
please write by telegram.
PHPStan is out the case.
SOLID is not a marker of good architecture, it's a marker of idealistic
understanding, for me.
I already long ago passed that time where I can just say "this code is bad
On Thu, Feb 8, 2024 at 4:02 PM Григорий Senior PHP / Разработчик Web
<6562...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> JIT I've had this solved, not only the application, but a way to.
>
> Am sharing my experience without labels "bad", "cood", "truth" or "correct",
> like you did.
>
> Your arguments are based on you
JIT I've had this solved, not only the application, but a way to.
Am sharing my experience without labels "bad", "cood", "truth" or
"correct", like you did.
Your arguments are based on your principles and I don't see in your words
any point to discuss, so - use pm or share here secret of error-fr
On Thu, Feb 8, 2024 at 2:29 AM Григорий Senior PHP / Разработчик Web
<6562...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I still don't understand why the problem is signature and moving a simple
> throw statement to return type, and then rewriting the catch statement to
> oneline-r.
Sorry for answering not directly to
I still don't understand why the problem is signature and moving a simple
throw statement to return type, and then rewriting the catch statement to
oneline-r.
I am completely satisfied with the php way of working with method
signatures except non-critical cases:
- still no `undefined` type, so som
On Wed, Feb 7, 2024, at 12:55 AM, Alex Wells wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 7:14 PM Larry Garfield
> wrote:
>
>> These two samples *are logically identical*, and even have mostly the same
>> performance characteristics, and both expose useful data to static
>> analyzers. They're just spelled dif
As I mentioned above - javascript pipelines (named `Promise` and
`Thenable`) are great examples when exceptions are a bad choice. Btw, not
"bad", but "choice to stop one step of the chain only".
If any step of chain/foreach throws an exception - it will break all code.
Should break one step. That'
Analyzing the problem on a single level operation is incorrect. New code
and simple operations are fully covered with exception/try/catch flow.
The main point i tried to attract your attention is that if you working in
batches/queues/pipelines you still need errors collection, and if you made
erro
On Wed, Feb 7, 2024, at 10:21 AM, Robert Landers wrote:
>> I think there's a subtle but important difference here between what you're
>> describing as the problem and what you implied the solution was (which I
>> then ran with).
>>
>> What you're talking about is trying to change the error hand
On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 11:27 AM Григорий Senior PHP / Разработчик Web
<6562...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, that was the second build of the error bag I presented in the github
> ticket.
> First one was a Trait that added an error bag as property in class and
> returned an array with two results.
>
Yes, that was the second build of the error bag I presented in the github
ticket.
First one was a Trait that added an error bag as property in class and
returned an array with two results.
The trouble was you have to refactor all places you used your function
doesn't matter, want you or not.
And
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 9:22 PM Larry Garfield wrote:
>
> On Tue, Feb 6, 2024, at 7:56 PM, Григорий Senior PHP / Разработчик Web wrote:
> > Thanks Larry, I will read both articles next weekend.
> >
> > Am not even talking about changing `throw` to `raise`.
> >
> > Am talking only about:
> > - produ
Thanks for suggestion about assert() use cases, i know it exists before,
but never used.
Usually if something shouldn't happen i throw exception there, or at least
type control. Its like manual mark for the future - you doing something
wrong, fix it.
Error collection case its about "you're right,
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 7:14 PM Larry Garfield
wrote:
> These two samples *are logically identical*, and even have mostly the same
> performance characteristics, and both expose useful data to static
> analyzers. They're just spelled differently. The advantage of the second
> is that it could be
On 2024-02-07 09:08, Larry Garfield wrote:
"The right tool for the job" is indeed the strongest argument for lightweight
exceptions. It's a tool we lack right now.
I'm thinking not of "DB went away" type issues (Exceptions are already fine there), but
"requested product not found." Right no
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024, at 7:56 PM, Григорий Senior PHP / Разработчик Web wrote:
> Thanks Larry, I will read both articles next weekend.
>
> Am not even talking about changing `throw` to `raise`.
>
> Am talking only about:
> - production ready code
> - that should be able to refactor with error collec
On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 at 22:09, Larry Garfield wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 6, 2024, at 7:18 PM, Arvids Godjuks wrote:
>
> >> To be clear: I really like this concept and have discussed it with
> others
> >> before, using almost exactly this syntax. I have not proposed it
> because
> >> my read of Internals
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024, at 7:18 PM, Arvids Godjuks wrote:
>> To be clear: I really like this concept and have discussed it with others
>> before, using almost exactly this syntax. I have not proposed it because
>> my read of Internals lately is that there's no stomach for more
>> type-centric behavi
Thanks Larry, I will read both articles next weekend.
Am not even talking about changing `throw` to `raise`.
Am talking only about:
- production ready code
- that should be able to refactor with error collectors (that was not
implemented years ago)
- without touching return types
- without touchi
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 11:19 AM Arvids Godjuks
wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 at 19:14, Larry Garfield
> wrote:
>
> Thank you Larry for this interesting summary - didn't remember there was
> quite a bit a discussion around the topic prior.
>
> I lean on the "we have exceptions, just leave it be" si
On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 at 19:14, Larry Garfield wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 6, 2024, at 4:13 PM, Григорий Senior PHP / Разработчик Web
> wrote:
> > Btw, i agree about Javascript, but on a low level it produces the most
> > clean code, because there's no types and rules. All types moved to
> > TypeScript's c
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024, at 4:13 PM, Григорий Senior PHP / Разработчик Web wrote:
> Btw, i agree about Javascript, but on a low level it produces the most
> clean code, because there's no types and rules. All types moved to
> TypeScript's client side compiler.
>
> JS 15 years ago ACCIDENTALLY created a
Btw, i agree about Javascript, but on a low level it produces the most
clean code, because there's no types and rules. All types moved to
TypeScript's client side compiler.
JS 15 years ago ACCIDENTALLY created a pipeline. Named it "Promise". We
spent years after to understand that while (true) and
My function seems like this:
```
_error_bag_error(error) {
if (stack.errorBag) {
stack.errorBag.add(error);
}
}
```
It does nothing if i didn't initialize the error bag manually.
I should call _error_bag() inside the current function to create one in the
stack, or _error_bag_push() (and
JavaScript is JavaScript - it's not a good role model to look at. If
anything, JavaScript is a collection of things of how not to design a
language :)
What you are looking for is Golang.
The level of changes you are proposing require it to go thriugh an RFC
process, have 2/3rds of voters to agree
Javascript is closer to.
It allows you to throw anything, but it is still the throw statement,
keeping in the mind the async nature of js - memory and processor stuff is
shared by the time.
JS seniors usually hate those guys who throw anything except language Error
class because they skipped the
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 4:26 PM Григорий Senior PHP / Разработчик Web
<6562...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Short answer is yes. Glad to see that personally adapted answer.
>
> That's why in the relevant github issue i show how to collect ONLY if you
> need.
> If you initialize the error bag - it collects,
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 5:26 PM Григорий Senior PHP / Разработчик Web <
6562...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Short answer is yes. Glad to see that personally adapted answer.
>
What are those languages specifically?
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 3:58 PM Григорий Senior PHP / Разработчик Web <
6562...@gmail.com> wrote:
> - add non-breakable interface and language construct `raise` to "throw"
> error without collecting trace
> - that error could be any scalar or object, or you can implement new
> interface for them, k
Short answer is yes. Glad to see that personally adapted answer.
That's why in the relevant github issue i show how to collect ONLY if you
need.
If you initialize the error bag - it collects, if not - it skips. T
So the `try/catch` statement outside means you initialized, also a special
decorator
On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 12:00 AM Григорий Senior PHP / Разработчик Web
<6562...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sending you private emails made because "answer" button in Gmail selects
> only you to receive.
> Sending you private emails that don't even read signs to me you don't need
> my answers and have no
Sending you private emails made because "answer" button in Gmail selects
only you to receive.
Sending you private emails that don't even read signs to me you don't need
my answers and have no benefits from reading. But you deny, dont even want
to understand. And notify all subscribers about what yo
On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 at 16:39, Arvids Godjuks
wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 at 15:58, Григорий Senior PHP / Разработчик Web <
> 6562...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello, please discuss about error collecting implementation in next PHP
>> releases
>>
>> Exceptions have common differences that restrict
On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 at 15:58, Григорий Senior PHP / Разработчик Web <
6562...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello, please discuss about error collecting implementation in next PHP
> releases
>
> Exceptions have common differences that restrict using them to collect
> errors
> 1. Timeloss (trace collection) o
Hello, please discuss about error collecting implementation in next PHP
releases
Exceptions have common differences that restrict using them to collect
errors
1. Timeloss (trace collection) on call new() on any class that implements
\Throwable
2. To collect errors and return it to the upper level
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