On 27 August 2024 22:02:45 BST, Rob Landers wrote:
>On Tue, Aug 27, 2024, at 22:15, Bilge wrote:
>> On 26/08/2024 23:24, Rob Landers wrote:
>>> On Sun, Aug 25, 2024, at 22:28, Gina P. Banyard wrote:
>>>
For the past 2–3 months, you have sent the vast majority of emails on this
list, th
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024, at 22:15, Bilge wrote:
> On 26/08/2024 23:24, Rob Landers wrote:
>> On Sun, Aug 25, 2024, at 22:28, Gina P. Banyard wrote:
>>
>>> For the past 2–3 months, you have sent the vast majority of emails on this
>>> list, this is not what I would consider normal
>>
>> To understan
On 26/08/2024 23:24, Rob Landers wrote:
On Sun, Aug 25, 2024, at 22:28, Gina P. Banyard wrote:
For the past 2–3 months, you have sent the vast majority of emails on
this list, this is not what I would consider normal
To understand just how bad I was breaking this rule, I created
https://emai
On Sun, Aug 25, 2024, at 22:28, Gina P. Banyard wrote:
> On Friday, 23 August 2024 at 23:55, Rob Landers wrote:
>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2024, at 23:06, Larry Garfield wrote:
>>>
>>> With generics, the syntax isn't the hard part. The hard part is type
>>> inference, or accepting that generic-using co
To throw one more question into the pot, I'd like to raise the
possibility of wanting typedefs. (To use the old C/C++ term, the latter
also allows a "type alias" syntax that does much the same thing.)
To use an example from the blog post:
function f(List> $entries): Map
{...}
there need not b
On Mon, Aug 19, 2024, at 12:08 PM, Derick Rethans wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Arnaud, Larry, and I have been working on an article describing the
> state of generics and collections, and related "experiments".
>
> You can find this article on the PHP Foundation's Blog:
> https://thephp.foundation/blog/2024/0
On Friday, 23 August 2024 at 23:55, Rob Landers wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2024, at 23:06, Larry Garfield wrote:
>> With generics, the syntax isn't the hard part. The hard part is type
>> inference, or accepting that generic-using code will just be extraordinarily
>> verbose and clumsy. There is
On Fri, Aug 23, 2024, at 23:06, Larry Garfield wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2024, at 1:38 PM, Rob Landers wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 23, 2024, at 20:27, Bruce Weirdan wrote:
> >> On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 4:27 PM Larry Garfield
> >> wrote:
> >>> Moving those definitions to attributes is certainly possible,
On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 4:31 PM Larry Garfield wrote:
>
> The null option is always an option, yes. The thing to understand is that
> today, *we already have erased generics*, via PHPStan/Psalm. That's one
> reason I am, personally, against erased generics in the language proper.
> They don'
On Fri, Aug 23, 2024, at 1:38 PM, Rob Landers wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2024, at 20:27, Bruce Weirdan wrote:
>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 4:27 PM Larry Garfield
>> wrote:
>>> Moving those definitions to attributes is certainly possible, though AFAIK
>>> both the PHPStan and Psalm devs have expresse
On Mon, Aug 19, 2024, at 19:08, Derick Rethans wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Arnaud, Larry, and I have been working on an article describing the
> state of generics and collections, and related "experiments".
>
> You can find this article on the PHP Foundation's Blog:
> https://thephp.foundation/blog/2024/08
On Fri, Aug 23, 2024, at 20:27, Bruce Weirdan wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 4:27 PM Larry Garfield wrote:
>> Moving those definitions to attributes is certainly possible, though AFAIK
>> both the PHPStan and Psalm devs have expressed zero interest in it.
>> Part of the challenge is that such
On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 4:27 PM Larry Garfield
wrote:
> Moving those definitions to attributes is certainly possible, though AFAIK
> both the PHPStan and Psalm devs have expressed zero interest in it.
>
Part of the challenge is that such an approach will either still involve
> string parsing,
T
On Fri, Aug 23, 2024, at 6:48 AM, Roman Pronskiy wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 7:11 PM Derick Rethans wrote:
>>
>> Arnaud, Larry, and I have been working on an article describing the
>> state of generics and collections, and related "experiments".
>>
>> You can find this article on the PHP Foun
On Fri, Aug 23, 2024, at 4:58 AM, Kévin Dunglas wrote:
> Thanks for sharing this research work.
>
> Instead of having to choose between fully reified generics and erased
> type declarations, couldn't we have both? A new option in php.ini could
> allow to enable the “erased” mode as a performance,
On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 8:51 AM Roman Pronskiy
wrote:
>
> Do you consider the path of not adding generics to the core at all? In
> fact, this path is implicitly taken during the last years. So maybe it
> makes sense to enforce that status quo?
>
> Potential steps:
> - Make the current status quo
On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 7:11 PM Derick Rethans wrote:
>
> Arnaud, Larry, and I have been working on an article describing the
> state of generics and collections, and related "experiments".
>
> You can find this article on the PHP Foundation's Blog:
> https://thephp.foundation/blog/2024/08/19/stat
Thanks for sharing this research work.
Instead of having to choose between fully reified generics and erased type
declarations, couldn't we have both? A new option in php.ini could allow to
enable the “erased” mode as a performance, production-oriented optimization.
In development, and on projects
> On Aug 20, 2024, at 9:44 AM, Arnaud Le Blanc wrote:
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2024 at 2:45 AM Mike Schinkel wrote:
>> It seems Java-style Generics are viewed as the proper archetype for Generics
>> in PHP? I would challenge the wisdom of taking that road considering how
>> different
On Tue, Aug 20, 2024 at 6:02 AM Arnaud Le Blanc wrote:
> Hi Bob,
>
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2024 at 12:18 AM Bob Weinand wrote:
> > The fluid Arrays section says "A PoC has been implemented, but the
> performance impact is still uncertain". Where may I find that PoC for my
> curiosity? I'm imagining th
Hey Arnauld,
On 20.8.2024 15:01:28, Arnaud Le Blanc wrote:
Hi Bob,
On Tue, Aug 20, 2024 at 12:18 AM Bob Weinand wrote:
The fluid Arrays section says "A PoC has been implemented, but the performance
impact is still uncertain". Where may I find that PoC for my curiosity? I'm
imagining the impl
Hi Larry,
On Tue, Aug 20, 2024 at 3:32 AM Larry Garfield wrote:
> > In fact, generic traits (essentially statically replacing the generic
> > arguments at link-time) would be an useful feature which would remain
> > useful even if we had fully reified generics.
> > I recognize that some functiona
Hi Mike,
On Tue, Aug 20, 2024 at 2:45 AM Mike Schinkel wrote:
> It seems Java-style Generics are viewed as the proper archetype for Generics
> in PHP? I would challenge the wisdom of taking that road considering how
> different the compilers and runtimes are between the Java and PHP. PHP
> s
Hi Bob,
On Tue, Aug 20, 2024 at 12:18 AM Bob Weinand wrote:
> The fluid Arrays section says "A PoC has been implemented, but the
> performance impact is still uncertain". Where may I find that PoC for my
> curiosity? I'm imagining the implementation of the array types as a counted
> collection
On Tue, Aug 20, 2024, at 14:08, Arnaud Le Blanc wrote:
> Hi Rob,
>
> On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 7:51 PM Rob Landers wrote:
>
> > > Invariance would make arrays very difficult to adopt, as a library can
> > > not start type hinting generic arrays without breaking user code, and
> > > users can n
Hi Rob,
On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 7:51 PM Rob Landers wrote:
> > Invariance would make arrays very difficult to adopt, as a library can not
> > start type hinting generic arrays without breaking user code, and users can
> > not pass generic arrays to libraries until they start using generic arra
On Tue, Aug 20, 2024, at 03:53, Bob Weinand wrote:
> On 20.8.2024 03:31:05, Larry Garfield wrote:
>> On Mon, Aug 19, 2024, at 5:16 PM, Bob Weinand wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Regarding the Collections PR, I personally really don't like it:
>>>
>>> • It implements something which would be trivial if we h
On 20.8.2024 03:31:05, Larry Garfield wrote:
On Mon, Aug 19, 2024, at 5:16 PM, Bob Weinand wrote:
Regarding the Collections PR, I personally really don't like it:
• It implements something which would be trivial if we had reified
generics. If this ever gets merged, and generics happen later,
On Mon, Aug 19, 2024, at 5:16 PM, Bob Weinand wrote:
> Regarding the Collections PR, I personally really don't like it:
>
> • It implements something which would be trivial if we had reified
> generics. If this ever gets merged, and generics happen later, it would
> be probably outdated and qui
> On Aug 19, 2024, at 7:37 PM, Rob Landers wrote:
> As an experiment, awhile ago, I went a different route for reified generics
> by 'hacking' type aliases (which I was also experimenting with). Such that a
> generic becomes compiled into a concrete implementation with a dangling type
> alias:
> On Aug 19, 2024, at 1:08 PM, Derick Rethans wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> Arnaud, Larry, and I have been working on an article describing the
> state of generics and collections, and related "experiments".
>
> You can find this article on the PHP Foundation's Blog:
> https://thephp.foundation/blog/2024
On Mon, Aug 19, 2024, at 19:08, Derick Rethans wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Arnaud, Larry, and I have been working on an article describing the
> state of generics and collections, and related "experiments".
>
> You can find this article on the PHP Foundation's Blog:
> https://thephp.foundation/blog/2024/08
On 19.8.2024 19:08:32, Derick Rethans wrote:
Hi!
Arnaud, Larry, and I have been working on an article describing the
state of generics and collections, and related "experiments".
You can find this article on the PHP Foundation's Blog:
https://thephp.foundation/blog/2024/08/19/state-of-generics-
On Monday, 19 of August 2024 г. at 20:11, Derick Rethans
wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Arnaud, Larry, and I have been working on an article describing the
> state of generics and collections, and related "experiments".
>
> You can find this article on the PHP Foundation's Blog:
>
> https://thephp.foundation/b
On Mon, Aug 19, 2024, at 19:08, Derick Rethans wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Arnaud, Larry, and I have been working on an article describing the
> state of generics and collections, and related "experiments".
>
> You can find this article on the PHP Foundation's Blog:
> https://thephp.foundation/blog/2024/08
Hi!
Arnaud, Larry, and I have been working on an article describing the
state of generics and collections, and related "experiments".
You can find this article on the PHP Foundation's Blog:
https://thephp.foundation/blog/2024/08/19/state-of-generics-and-collections/
cheers,
Derick
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