[The Java Posse] Re: Do scientists agonize over syntax as much as we do?

2011-03-14 Thread Chris Winters
On Mar 14, 10:08 pm, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > ... > actually seem to impede PHP's meteoric rise much. I'd think few would argue > PHP is a language that really did anything interesting on the language > design front (in fact, it's the nickelback of programming languages!), and > yet its one of

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: The @Delegate plan.

2011-03-14 Thread Miroslav Pokorny
Reinier - i recall a while ago you gave an interview on some podcast where it was discussed that team Lombok were going to create a universal AST. What happened to that ? On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > Sorry, wrong group. This was meant for the project lombok group

Re: [The Java Posse] Do scientists agonize over syntax as much as we do?

2011-03-14 Thread Reinier Zwitserloot
If you had read the paper, you'd realize that with 'turn' (the proposed name for 2*pi), euler's identity gets prettier. e^(i*pi) is -1, but e^(i*turn) is +1. This is 'prettier'. Technically this means euler's identity gets mangled to either: e^(i*turn) -1 = 0 or simply: e^(i* turn) = 1 + 0 b

[The Java Posse] Re: The @Delegate plan.

2011-03-14 Thread Reinier Zwitserloot
Sorry, wrong group. This was meant for the project lombok group, my mistake. On Tuesday, March 15, 2011 2:50:56 AM UTC+1, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > > As you might know we ran into a serious issue completing @Delegate support > in eclipse: When @Delegating a type which is part of the same proj

[The Java Posse] The @Delegate plan.

2011-03-14 Thread Reinier Zwitserloot
As you might know we ran into a serious issue completing @Delegate support in eclipse: When @Delegating a type which is part of the same project (as a source file), then effectively at random it'll either work or it'll delegate no methods at all, with no errors. Initial inspection into this bug

Re: [The Java Posse] Do scientists agonize over syntax as much as we do?

2011-03-14 Thread Kevin Wright
On 14 Mar 2011 20:24, "Cédric Beust ♔" wrote: > > > > 2011/3/14 Alexey Zinger >> >> Given one of our frequently recurring themes of what defines a language: syntax vs functionality, I found it amusing having come across this essay by a mathematician, called Pi is Wrong ( http://www.math.utah.edu/

Re: [The Java Posse] Do scientists agonize over syntax as much as we do?

2011-03-14 Thread Cédric Beust ♔
2011/3/14 Alexey Zinger > Given one of our frequently recurring themes of what defines a language: > syntax vs functionality, I found it amusing having come across this essay by > a mathematician, called Pi is Wrong ( > http://www.math.utah.edu/~palais/pi.html), where Bob Palais argues in > favor

[The Java Posse] Do scientists agonize over syntax as much as we do?

2011-03-14 Thread Alexey Zinger
Given one of our frequently recurring themes of what defines a language: syntax vs functionality, I found it amusing having come across this essay by a mathematician, called Pi is Wrong (http://www.math.utah.edu/~palais/pi.html), where Bob Palais argues in favor of changing the value of π. I do

Re: [The Java Posse] Annotations and JDBC 4.0

2011-03-14 Thread Cédric Beust ♔
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 1:29 AM, Miroslav Pokorny < miroslav.poko...@gmail.com> wrote: > The one thing I always find troublesome with annotation use as a config > mechanism is they are unmodufiable. Most frameworks that use annotations > almost never include an alternate way to programatically bui

Re: [The Java Posse] Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Kevin Wright
On 14 Mar 2011 17:28, "Cédric Beust ♔" wrote: > > > > On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 6:04 AM, Kevin Wright wrote: >> >> >> There's a few bits that Scala helps with. The deep support for immutability > > > Mmmh, I thought we went over this already: Scala "the language" doesn't off much more in terms of

Re: [The Java Posse] Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Cédric Beust ♔
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 6:04 AM, Kevin Wright wrote: > > There's a few bits that Scala helps with. The deep support for > immutability > Mmmh, I thought we went over this already: Scala "the language" doesn't off much more in terms of immutability than Java. Classes are mutable by default (you

Re: [The Java Posse] Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Kevin Wright
On 14 March 2011 16:45, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > Openable is a silly name, at least, if this is for an abstraction with the > following primitives: > > mkdir(s) > length > canRead > canWrite > exists > isDirectory > delete > They'd be methods on a FileSystem singleton, all taking a URI as th

Re: [The Java Posse] Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Kevin Wright
On 14 March 2011 15:57, Alexey Zinger wrote: > So what happens if you got a reference to a file that exists, and before > you get to use it, something else deletes the file? > > Alexey > > The same as it always did, attempting to open it for use would result in an error :) Opening a file is clear

Re: [The Java Posse] Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Alexey Zinger
So what happens if you got a reference to a file that exists, and before you get to use it, something else deletes the file? Alexey From: Kevin Wright To: javaposse@googlegroups.com Cc: Miroslav Pokorny Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 11:00:48 AM Subject: Re: [

Re: [The Java Posse] Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Reinier Zwitserloot
Openable is a silly name, at least, if this is for an abstraction with the following primitives: mkdir(s) length canRead canWrite exists isDirectory delete etcetera File is rather specifically for, well, files. The abstraction for resources is Input and OutputStream. A few APIs fail to underst

Re: [The Java Posse] Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Kevin Wright
On 14 March 2011 14:48, Miroslav Pokorny wrote: > > > On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 1:46 AM, Alexey Zinger wrote: > >> I see a small problem with the Scala stuff. Specifically: >> >> FileRef >> - DirectoryFileRef >> - StreamableFileRef >> - AppendableFileRef >> - RandomAccessFileRef >>

Re: [The Java Posse] Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Kevin Wright
On 14 March 2011 14:46, Alexey Zinger wrote: > I see a small problem with the Scala stuff. Specifically: > > FileRef > - DirectoryFileRef > - StreamableFileRef > - AppendableFileRef > - RandomAccessFileRef > - NonExistantFileRef > > How does this address the scenario of a non-e

Re: [The Java Posse] Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Kevin Wright
On 14 March 2011 15:00, Fabrizio Giudici wrote: > On 03/14/2011 03:46 PM, Alexey Zinger wrote: > >> I see a small problem with the Scala stuff. Specifically: >> >> FileRef >> - DirectoryFileRef >> - StreamableFileRef >>- AppendableFileRef >> - RandomAccessFileRef >> - NonExistantFile

Re: [The Java Posse] Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Fabrizio Giudici
On 03/14/2011 03:46 PM, Alexey Zinger wrote: I see a small problem with the Scala stuff. Specifically: FileRef - DirectoryFileRef - StreamableFileRef - AppendableFileRef - RandomAccessFileRef - NonExistantFileRef How does this address the scenario of a non-existent file refer

Re: [The Java Posse] Annotations and JDBC 4.0

2011-03-14 Thread Miroslav Pokorny
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 1:01 AM, Stuart McCulloch wrote: > On 14 March 2011 08:29, Miroslav Pokorny wrote: > >> The one thing I always find troublesome with annotation use as a config >> mechanism is they are unmodufiable. >> > > You could always use property-placeholders in annotations, such as

Re: [The Java Posse] Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Miroslav Pokorny
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 1:46 AM, Alexey Zinger wrote: > I see a small problem with the Scala stuff. Specifically: > > FileRef > - DirectoryFileRef > - StreamableFileRef > - AppendableFileRef > - RandomAccessFileRef > - NonExistantFileRef > > How does this address the scenario of

Re: [The Java Posse] Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Miroslav Pokorny
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 1:45 AM, Miroslav Pokorny < miroslav.poko...@gmail.com> wrote: > @Kevin> > >> Because it isn't a path, it's just a handle allowing you to open a "File". >> It could just as easily represent a dynamically created temporary file, >> mapped memory, or an I/O channel to some at

Re: [The Java Posse] Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Alexey Zinger
I see a small problem with the Scala stuff. Specifically: FileRef - DirectoryFileRef - StreamableFileRef - AppendableFileRef - RandomAccessFileRef - NonExistantFileRef How does this address the scenario of a non-existent file reference "becoming" existent by a side-effect of

Re: [The Java Posse] Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Miroslav Pokorny
@Kevin> > Because it isn't a path, it's just a handle allowing you to open a "File". > It could just as easily represent a dynamically created temporary file, > mapped memory, or an I/O channel to some attached USB device. > > If I was to pick another name, it's the "File" prefix that would be fir

Re: [The Java Posse] Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Alexey Zinger
Sounds like we're saying the same thing, no? When I was talking about thread safety, I didn't mean to imply that the low-level synchronization Object API affect immutability of an object. I was referring to the idea that File state, such as exists() is rather low-level, such that it should be

Re: [The Java Posse] Annotations and JDBC 4.0

2011-03-14 Thread Stuart McCulloch
On 14 March 2011 08:29, Miroslav Pokorny wrote: > The one thing I always find troublesome with annotation use as a config > mechanism is they are unmodufiable. > You could always use property-placeholders in annotations, such as @Path( "${tmp}/${app}/working/" ) and then interpolate the value at

Re: [The Java Posse] Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Kevin Wright
On 14 Mar 2011 13:18, "Miroslav Pokorny" wrote: > > @Kevin > > >> >> In this case, I'm invoking the `of` factory method on the `FileRef` singleton. This method accepts a URI argument, so you're also using an implicit conversion from String=>Uri. De-sugaring, it's equivalent to: >> >> val dir:

Re: [The Java Posse] Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Miroslav Pokorny
@Kevin > In this case, I'm invoking the `of` factory method on the `FileRef` > singleton. This method accepts a URI argument, so you're also using an > implicit conversion from String=>Uri. De-sugaring, it's equivalent to: > > val dir: FileRef = FileRef.of(Uri("C:\somedirectory")) > > Why is

Re: [The Java Posse] Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Kevin Wright
On 14 March 2011 10:40, Fabrizio Giudici wrote: > On 03/14/2011 11:04 AM, Kevin Wright wrote: > >> What a tangled web we weave... >> >> > OK, Kevin. Bytecode manipulation apart (you correctly depicted the scenario > as "vandalism" in this case and can't be avoided), does Scala add something > inte

Re: [The Java Posse] Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Fabrizio Giudici
On 03/14/2011 11:04 AM, Kevin Wright wrote: What a tangled web we weave... OK, Kevin. Bytecode manipulation apart (you correctly depicted the scenario as "vandalism" in this case and can't be avoided), does Scala add something interesting to the topic? :-) I'm not pulling your legs, I'm rea

[The Java Posse] RFC: Extended REST as a generic query API?

2011-03-14 Thread Casper Bang
As so many others, I've fallen in love with the REST mentality as it seems to embrace a simpler and more flexible model compared to previous RPC webservice approaches. However, resource design (especially mapping legacy database tables) remains a massive undertaking full of compromises and impuriti

Re: [The Java Posse] Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Kevin Wright
What a tangled web we weave... There's an awful lot going on here, possibly best to get the fluff out of the way first to clear the "path" :) First; wait, notify, notifyAll don't matter in the slightest. Conceptually, these can be treated as though they didn't even exist, just pretend that they'

Re: [The Java Posse] Annotations and JDBC 4.0

2011-03-14 Thread Moandji Ezana
On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 10:08 PM, Mark Derricutt wrote: > Oh really? I'd never known they had existed until listening to this ep, > googled and found them and thought "wow - this looks AWESOME!", but they're > gone? That sucks. I had exactly the same experience. Then I looked at the JavaDoc a

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Miroslav Pokorny
@Howard What exactly is the point of ImmutableValueConversions that seems a very convaluted way to say XXXBuilder if thats what it is...Why Conversions - dont most people call this pattern "Builder" ? For my stuff i have a Builder and Builderable interfaces. My style is public class ValueType i

[The Java Posse] Re: Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread Graham Allan
> Of course, caches are a problem, but I don't fully understand the terms. > I mean: in the end, what matters is the externally visible state, not > the internal one. What's the problem of portions of the state being > computed lazily, if the computing is thread-safe? I mean: what's the > impact on

Re: [The Java Posse] Annotations and JDBC 4.0

2011-03-14 Thread Miroslav Pokorny
The one thing I always find troublesome with annotation use as a config mechanism is they are unmodufiable. Most frameworks that use annotations almost never include an alternate way to programatically build the same config on that sub-system. Why is this a problem ? It's a problem because you c

[The Java Posse] Re: Some design questions (about immutability and other stuff)

2011-03-14 Thread hlovatt
I agree with Miroslav's comments that if you choose a good name and good class hierarchy then many of the problems go away, his example for file/directory paths is a nice one. Below is an extended example along the same lines as Miroslav's. In my own pet project I use the following interface: pub