Re: [The Java Posse] Re: 385 - Math or programming

2012-05-23 Thread Fabrizio Giudici
On Thu, 24 May 2012 02:31:14 +0200, Kevin Wright wrote: Ahh, yes. The inimitable Douglas Adams :) I was caught until "collapse, ruin and famine" :-) -- Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect, Project Manager Tidalwave s.a.s. - "We make Java work. Everywhere." fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it htt

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: 385 - Math or programming

2012-05-23 Thread Fabrizio Giudici
On Thu, 24 May 2012 01:46:20 +0200, Kevin Wright wrote: it cheaper). This is a thorny problem, but I believe the situation would be best improved by giving more control back to *teachers* and by In my experience, putting everything in control of teachers would be a disaster - but this i

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: 385 - Math or programming

2012-05-23 Thread clay
The math you describe is EE type math which includes stuff like signals & systems, frequency analysis, and fourier transforms. In software, this type of math is the basis for lossy compression and many data analysis techniques. This stuff is great, but Dick's specific interest in Scala and adva

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: 385 - Math or programming

2012-05-23 Thread Kevin Wright
Ahh, yes. The inimitable Douglas Adams :) Sorely missed... On May 24, 2012 1:16 AM, "Ricky Clarkson" wrote: > In the UK at least, we seem to have an excess of hairdressers and beauty >> spas and nail polishers. Perhaps we'd be better off by offering >> encouragement for more people to enter en

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: 385 - Math or programming

2012-05-23 Thread Ricky Clarkson
> > In the UK at least, we seem to have an excess of hairdressers and beauty > spas and nail polishers. Perhaps we'd be better off by offering > encouragement for more people to enter engineering fields? Many years ago this was a thriving, happy planet - people, cities, shops, a normal world. Ex

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: 385 - Math or programming

2012-05-23 Thread Kevin Wright
On 23 May 2012 22:06, clay wrote: > To summarize some viewpoints: > > Tor - Advocates benefits of a broad education. > Dick - Advocates importance of applied math. Also advocates individual > choice of education. > Ido Ran (Thread OP) - Advocates more emphasis on applied skills rather > than broa

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: 385 - Math or programming

2012-05-23 Thread Ricky Clarkson
My experience in a UK university was that the lecturers taught whatever they were good at unless they were useless in which case something was chosen for them and they had to learn it to teach it. Most of them came from a maths department that got closed down but they had no computer science backg

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: 385 - Math or programming

2012-05-23 Thread Fabrizio Giudici
On Wed, 23 May 2012 23:16:51 +0200, Ido Ran wrote: My first point was that high education (college and univ.) in Israel emphasize the math to much. They also lack teaching of theoretical things like principles of OO, design methods and work methods. This point makes me smile. I could write th

Re: [The Java Posse] Google did not breach Oracle patents, a court has found

2012-05-23 Thread Fabrizio Giudici
On Wed, 23 May 2012 22:53:14 +0200, Cédric Beust ♔ wrote: Indeed. This part should be cause for mild concern, though: The jury concluded that Google infringed on 37 copyrighted APIs but it also agreed that Google demonstrated that it was led to believe it did not need a license for usin

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: 385 - Math or programming

2012-05-23 Thread Ido Ran
Hi, thank you for the to-the-point summary. I'm all for expand your horizon by learning new stuff. I never said I think people should learn only the small bits they need for their job, be it programming, hair cutting or farming. My first point was that high education (college and univ.) in Israel

[The Java Posse] Re: 385 - Math or programming

2012-05-23 Thread clay
To summarize some viewpoints: Tor - Advocates benefits of a broad education. Dick - Advocates importance of applied math. Also advocates individual choice of education. Ido Ran (Thread OP) - Advocates more emphasis on applied skills rather than broad academic skills. Question for Java Posse: Wh

Re: [The Java Posse] Google did not breach Oracle patents, a court has found

2012-05-23 Thread Cédric Beust ♔
Indeed. This part should be cause for mild concern, though: The jury concluded that Google infringed on 37 copyrighted APIs but it also agreed that Google demonstrated that it was led to believe it did not need a license for using Java. There still hasn't been a ruling as a matter of law about t

Re: [The Java Posse] Google did not breach Oracle patents, a court has found

2012-05-23 Thread Ricky Clarkson
It's great news, I hope Alsup's common sense becomes more common. On May 23, 2012 5:15 PM, "Matthew Farwell" wrote: > From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18184079 > > > Google did not infringe patents owned by software developer Oracle, a > jury in a California court found on Wednesday. > >

[The Java Posse] Google did not breach Oracle patents, a court has found

2012-05-23 Thread Matthew Farwell
>From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18184079 > Google did not infringe patents owned by software developer Oracle, a jury in a California court found on Wednesday. > The Silicon Valley giants had fought over whether Google used Oracle's Java programming language in its Android mobile opera

[The Java Posse] Re: #385 - Raspberry pi

2012-05-23 Thread Phil
I'm waiting for the Cotton Candy - http://www.fxitech.com/products/ - I can see some great use cases for these devices. Use any spare HDMI monitor alongside your TV when watching sports to provide additional information like, for example, the live timing data from Formula One. Prepare a presentat

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: 385 - Math or programming

2012-05-23 Thread Mark Fortner
I think there's a spectrum of career opportunities here, and whether or not you need math depends on where you fit in that spectrum. As others have said, at one end you have web developers, whose primary focus is creating pages. They can make do with JavaScript, HTML, etc. And mid-tier developer

Re: [The Java Posse] 385 - Math or programming

2012-05-23 Thread Jon Kiparsky
"The point of IDE's (and tools in general) is not to be used as a substitute for thinking but to make sure that humans can focus on things that computers can't do while letting the computer take care of tasks that they can do without the intervention of humans." Trouble is, if you spend a little w

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: 385 - Math or programming

2012-05-23 Thread Ido Ran
I agree. I saw the problem from the perspective of the teacher in that I ask a candidate for job how the build process of C# works. I expect him to explain about csc, msbuild, msil, assembly and such but I was very supposed when he reply "you press F7". Tools are need to be used and student must

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: 385 - Math or programming

2012-05-23 Thread Cédric Beust ♔
On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 7:13 AM, Casper Bang wrote: > One classic example that still makes me laugh/cry, is at Tech-Ed 2004, a > teacher asks Anders Hejlsberg (chief architect of C#) how to make Visual > Studio loose code completion, so that he would be more able to test the > skills of his stud

Re: [The Java Posse] #385 - Raspberry pi

2012-05-23 Thread Kevin Wright
On 23 May 2012 13:42, Jan Goyvaerts I❤© wrote: > I've heard you can pre-order though. And get it somewhere for the summer > holidays. > > Well... I finally got to order mine yesterday, delivery expected in 3 weeks :) If I recall correctly from the forums, then by the end of next month everybody

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: 385 - Math or programming

2012-05-23 Thread Casper Bang
> > ...even though it actually does support graph structure of strong/hard > link... > Yep, even NTFS supports this. What's holding us back, are those pesky legacy FileOpen/FileSave UI dialogs. I am not an iOS guy, but if Apple ever chose to push the state-of-art forward in this aspect, I'd p

Re: [The Java Posse] #385 - Raspberry pi

2012-05-23 Thread Steven Siebert
Wow! I didnt see this. That really expands its potential use cases for it. Thank you for pointing that out! I'll look into this tonight...now I'm excited. On May 23, 2012 9:53 AM, "Kevin Wright" wrote: > > > On 23 May 2012 14:16, Steven Siebert wrote: > >> Indeed, you are correct. >> >> I was

Re: [The Java Posse] #385 - Raspberry pi

2012-05-23 Thread Kevin Wright
On 23 May 2012 14:16, Steven Siebert wrote: > Indeed, you are correct. > > I was responding to the use cases Casper put forth. Not only would the > Arduino be a cheaper platform, but the sensors themselves would be as well > (RP doesn't have analog/digital IO pins exposed, as I see, so you would

Re: [The Java Posse] #385 - Raspberry pi

2012-05-23 Thread Steven Siebert
Indeed, you are correct. I was responding to the use cases Casper put forth. Not only would the Arduino be a cheaper platform, but the sensors themselves would be as well (RP doesn't have analog/digital IO pins exposed, as I see, so you would have to purchase much more expensive sensors with USB)

Re: [The Java Posse] #385 - Raspberry pi

2012-05-23 Thread Jan Goyvaerts I❤©
To my knowledge the RP is not a kit, but rather a computer. On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Steven Siebert wrote: > Arduino [1] would be cheaper for this stuff =) > > [1] http://www.arduino.cc/ > > On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 8:00 AM, Casper Bang wrote: > >> I'm just trying to think to an excuse^H^

Re: [The Java Posse] #385 - Raspberry pi

2012-05-23 Thread Steven Siebert
Arduino [1] would be cheaper for this stuff =) [1] http://www.arduino.cc/ On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 8:00 AM, Casper Bang wrote: > I'm just trying to think to an excuse^H^H^H^H^H^H a smart idea about what >> >> to do with that stuff so I buy one :-) >> > > Phase 1) Make your own process historian

Re: [The Java Posse] #385 - Raspberry pi

2012-05-23 Thread Jan Goyvaerts I❤©
I've heard you can pre-order though. And get it somewhere for the summer holidays. On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Joey Gibson wrote: > On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 6:55 AM, Fabrizio Giudici < > fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it> wrote: > >> On Wed, 23 May 2012 12:48:59 +0200, Jan Goyvaerts I❤© < >> jav

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: 385 - Math or programming

2012-05-23 Thread Ido Ran
I agree with Casper. Taking the file system as an example is great, even though it actually does support graph structure of strong/hard link we, the technical people, fail to find a way to present the graph side to the general public. We expect people to learn about file system hierarchy. Another

Re: [The Java Posse] #385 - Raspberry pi

2012-05-23 Thread Joey Gibson
On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 6:55 AM, Fabrizio Giudici < fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it> wrote: > On Wed, 23 May 2012 12:48:59 +0200, Jan Goyvaerts I❤© < > java.arti...@gmail.com> wrote: > > That's not too bad either, is it ? :-) >> > > I'm just trying to think to an excuse^H^H^H^H^H^H a smart idea abo

Re: [The Java Posse] #385 - Raspberry pi

2012-05-23 Thread Casper Bang
> > I'm just trying to think to an excuse^H^H^H^H^H^H a smart idea about what > > to do with that stuff so I buy one :-) > Phase 1) Make your own process historian and hook up sensors for electricy consumption, water consumption, heat consumption, temperatures, mailbox arrivals etc. Phase

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: 385 - Math or programming

2012-05-23 Thread Casper Bang
On Wednesday, May 23, 2012 11:45:48 AM UTC+2, Ido Ran wrote: > > Interesting. I hope we will also see someone who think different. > One thing that is very important in today's world is to be able to > understand complex system. We are far away from the days you could actually > calculate big O

Re: [The Java Posse] #385 - Raspberry pi

2012-05-23 Thread Joseph Ottinger
Well, once a decent JVM is available for the ARM platforms, you could use the pi or other such machines to build a local private java-based cloud for pretty much nothing - $350 for 10 machines, plus the infrastructure you'd need and the SD cards, and you'd be rocking. :) On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 6:

Re: [The Java Posse] #385 - Raspberry pi

2012-05-23 Thread Fabrizio Giudici
On Wed, 23 May 2012 12:48:59 +0200, Jan Goyvaerts I❤© wrote: That's not too bad either, is it ? :-) I'm just trying to think to an excuse^H^H^H^H^H^H a smart idea about what to do with that stuff so I buy one :-) -- Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect, Project Manager Tidalwave s.a.s. -

Re: [The Java Posse] #385 - Raspberry pi

2012-05-23 Thread Jan Goyvaerts I❤©
That's not too bad either, is it ? :-) On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Fabrizio Giudici < fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it> wrote: > On Wed, 23 May 2012 11:51:45 +0200, Jan Goyvaerts I❤© < > java.arti...@gmail.com> wrote: > > The final Raspberry pi is slightly bigger than the original version >>

Re: [The Java Posse] #385 - Raspberry pi

2012-05-23 Thread Fabrizio Giudici
On Wed, 23 May 2012 11:51:45 +0200, Jan Goyvaerts I❤© wrote: The final Raspberry pi is slightly bigger than the original version mentioned in the episode. [image: Inline image 1] http://www.raspberrypi.org/quick-start-guide Did you see also this? http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/05/ne

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: 385 - Math or programming

2012-05-23 Thread Ido Ran
Interesting. I hope we will also see someone who think different. One thing that is very important in today's world is to be able to understand complex system. We are far away from the days you could actually calculate big O notation of a function because most of the systems today run on virtual ma

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: 385 - Math or programming

2012-05-23 Thread Fabrizio Giudici
On Wed, 23 May 2012 10:39:47 +0200, Casper Bang wrote: I do think that as our abstraction levels increases, CS should probably matter less and less. What do I care if Java7 now uses TimSort rather than MergeSort? All I really need to know is the basic trade-offs made within the facilities

[The Java Posse] Re: 385 - Math or programming

2012-05-23 Thread Casper Bang
My view on this is that while programming != CS, backend/full-stack professionals need to know both more or less. Front-end developers however, can get by on very little CS, having no clue about big-Oh, memory models, instruction sets etc. For all practical purposes, this latter category would