[The Java Posse] Re: java.util.Optional in Java 8

> > FYI, here is Brian's summary of the situation about Optional in Java 8. > Hopefully, this will provide some background on why things are the way they > are. > I have already seen that email but It doesn't clarify my doubts at all. I wonder how it clarifies yours. The problem is with the

[The Java Posse] Re: java.util.Optional (Java 8)

> > ok, the Brian Goetz responded to these concerns: > http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/lambda-dev/2012-October/006365.html > > The JDK perspective makes sense now. These guys are definitely super smart > guys. > Probably I am missing something, but what I read is just: "the goal is NOT

[The Java Posse] Re: java.util.Optional (Java 8)

> > This is the important question of this thread and it's not a technical > issue that a typical developer such as myself would have much utility with. > > Ideally, this is where the more well connected and influential members of > the group, or even the Java Posse themselves, should comment. >

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: java.util.Optional (Java 8)

> > If you take Option so seriously and are on the JVM, why not fully switch > over to Scala? > Let me reply to your question with another very simple question: how many people in this mailing list, and more in general which percentage of the developers in the world, are allowed to choose the

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: java.util.Optional (Java 8)

> As I said, there could be something else... >> > > Could be Guava or something else, but if Java 8 wants really do a step > toward the functional world, I honestly don't see why such a fundamental > (and let me say trivial) thing like an Option (and possibly an Either) > shouldn't be availa

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: java.util.Optional (Java 8)

> As I said, there could be something else... > Could be Guava or something else, but if Java 8 wants really do a step toward the functional world, I honestly don't see why such a fundamental (and let me say trivial) thing like an Option (and possibly an Either) shouldn't be available in the

[The Java Posse] Re: java.util.Optional (Java 8)

> Has anyone seen java.util.Optional in the new Lambda builds? > Yes. Why is there no flatMap? > I asked it but received no meaningful answer. > Why does it not support iteration (can't do a for loop over an Optional)? > I asked it but received no meaningful answer. However I tried to do

[The Java Posse] Re: Why Scala matters (especially) under a business point of view

> With Java however one has the ability to copy & paste standard Java > code from the web which saves hundreds of hours of time I really hope I haven't understood well. Are you really saying that you prefer Java because you can easily find code to copy & paste? If so, I am sorry, but I am glad you

[The Java Posse] Re: Why Scala matters (especially) under a business point of view

Thanks for all the feedback and constructive critiques. All of them deserve a reply: - I admit the post is quite biased in favor of Scala (but not that much). I did it on purpose since its intention is clearly to promote the Scala adoption, especially in Italy where for some reason almost nobody i

[The Java Posse] Why Scala matters (especially) under a business point of view

could reopen that discussion by bringing new ideas and clarifying the old ones. Cheers, Mario Fusco http://twitter.com/mariofusco -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to javaposse@googlegrou

[The Java Posse] Re: James Gosling Says He Doesn't Care About Java

> Neither do I take the James Gosling comment as gospel. After all, by itself > it is just a statement about one person's current point of view. A bit like > me saying "I've really gone off my Ford Focus". It might be true for him, it > doesn't mean it applies to everybody. My neighbour loves he

[The Java Posse] James Gosling Says He Doesn't Care About Java

"Most people talk about Java the language, and this may sound odd coming from me, but I could hardly care less." - James Gosling, TSSJS 2011 http://www.theserverside.com/news/2240037412/James-Gosling-Says-He-Doesnt-Care-About-Java Any comments? -- You received this message because you are subs

[The Java Posse] Re: On what's effective, efficient, easy and intuitive

Fabrizio, first of all I really love your definition of the "karma" levels. If you don't have any copyright on it (in these patent-troll times you can never know) I'd like to use it to explain why a developer should try to move to the next level in his karma. I admit that my usual mistake is to t

[The Java Posse] Re: Bruce Eckel's blog; first paedagogic Scala intro I've seen

> People are always bitching about maven too, but in general in #scala > we have more experience with maven than with SBT.  If you went back 2 > years you'd see a lot more moaning about maven, at least from me! For what I read in the forums and mailing-lists I am subscribed to, people are *still*

[The Java Posse] Re: Bruce Eckel's blog; first paedagogic Scala intro I've seen

Coder(words: ParVector[String]) { ... and add a ".par" in the 25th line: 25. splitPoint <- (1 to number.length).par That's all! What should you do to make the above mentioned 200 LOCs Java class to make it work in parallel? Coming back to the email of Fabrizio Giudici who was w

[The Java Posse] Re: Bruce Eckel's blog; first paedagogic Scala intro I've seen

lly the most valuable type of ROI I can imagine and I find hard that a wise engineer (in any field) would like to give up to it. Cheers, Mario Fusco http://twitter.com/mariofusco -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To pos

[The Java Posse] Re: Java Rule engine

Hi, maybe is a bit OT since it's written in Scala, but I am developing a very light open source rule engine that allows to write rules with an internal DSL (i.e. directly in Scala). You can find more details about my project here: http://code.google.com/p/hammurabi/ Cheers, Mario Fusco

[The Java Posse] Re: Patent no. 6,748,582

Oh well, even linked lists have been patented only 4 years ago: http://www.google.com/patents?id=Szh4EBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false Maybe my memories is not serving me well, but I remember I was using them a bit earlier than that :-) I am serious now: I am not an expert bu

[The Java Posse] Re: Martin Odersky says: Skills required

> If you need me...I'll be over here...coding. I hope you are coding in Scala, otherwise don't dare to consider yourself a good programmer! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googleg

[The Java Posse] Re: Martin Odersky says: Skills required

> I think that many of us have a bit of fun out of them :-) Sorry. I still have a bit of jet leg and didn't catch the irony :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com. T

[The Java Posse] Re: Martin Odersky says: Skills required

> So by inference, people who are not convinced by Scala, are inferior > developers unwilling to learn? Of course this inference is wrong. The fact that there are some black cows doesn't imply that all the cows are black isn't it? As the fact that if (and I say if) Scala is suitable ONLY for progr

[The Java Posse] Re: Opinions: JavaOne 2010 - Boom or Bust?

Let's put it in this way: to see the main keynote closed by a skater instead of James Goslin (or at least somebody who has something to share with the Java world) has been EXTREMELY sad. Bye, Mario -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" gro

[The Java Posse] Re: Request for scala fans.

> Why can't we be interested in both? I am not saying you couldn't be interested in both. Actually I am. I just wanted to keep the two things separated. This can be a questionable choice with pros and cons. I was just suggesting to try this strategy but to tag the "scala infected" thread with [sca

[The Java Posse] Re: Request for scala fans.

I think Reiner is right. There are lots of Scala fans here including myself. And it seems we have the bad habit (not trait :) ) to diverge many discussion on Scala related topics. Anyway this is also the symptom of an always growing hype around Scala. For these reasons I suppose it could be a grea

[The Java Posse] Re: JDK 7 (as currently defined) delayed to mid 2012

I still haven't received any answer for what I consider a very important question: why did they set a so completely unrealistic deadline? Why did they lie knowing that they were lying for so long? I KNEW it was practically impossible to meet that deadline the very day they announced it at last Dev

[The Java Posse] Re: JDK 7 (as currently defined) delayed to mid 2012

> That's an interesting observation. Personally, I think the reason why Scala > will never become mainstream is more because of its complexity than its > syntax, although both are clearly related. This myth of the unbearable complexity of Scala is starting to become annoying. Did you give a look t

[The Java Posse] Re: JDK 7 (as currently defined) delayed to mid 2012

> There are a few things that I don't understand. Well, that JDK 7 > delays doesn't surprise me either, considering the mess that was > already started under the last months of the Sun management. In > particular, the way closures were brought again on the carpet, without > a clear idea of what to

[The Java Posse] Re: JDK 7 (as currently defined) delayed to mid 2012

> JDK 7 minus lambda, jigsaw and coin .. what's left then? Scala :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to javaposse+uns

[The Java Posse] Re: JDK 7 (as currently defined) delayed to mid 2012

Hi Ricky, if you read the subject of my first email I wrote exactly the same. Mid 2012 as currently defined. What Mark calls plan B is to delivery the JDK 7 in mid 2011 but without Lambda, Jigsaw and part of Coin. That means it won't have any of the features they promised. To me this is unaccepta

[The Java Posse] JDK 7 (as currently defined) delayed to mid 2012

I am really sorry to report that my worst forecasts are going to become reality: http://blogs.sun.com/mr/entry/rethinking_jdk7 The blog starts with: "It’s been clear for some time that the most recent JDK 7 development schedule is, to put it mildly, unrealistic". Indeed I realized that many month

[The Java Posse] Re: Data generator framework?

A couple of years ago I used Benerator to generate the data to test an insurance company web site: http://databene.org/databene-benerator I hope this could fit your needs. Bye, Mario Fusco twitter.com/mariofusco -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &quo

[The Java Posse] Re: So Scala is too Complex?

I published my opinion on this argument here: http://java.dzone.com/articles/scala-complex-yes-and Anyway my advice is mostly to give a look at what Martin Odersky wrote about this debate: http://lamp.epfl.ch/~odersky/blogs/isscalacomplex.html I guess this could easily become the manifest of th

[The Java Posse] Re: So Scala is too Complex?

hat do you think about what it is coming along? My personal opinion is that Java is going to become at least as complex as Scala but only with a small fraction of the Scala's expressiveness, power and conciseness. If that is true this is the worst scenario I can imagine: complexity + verbosity

[The Java Posse] Re: Can code katas make you a better programmer?

> Time is a huge problem. I don't have a family, so I can spend lots of my > free time honeying my skills and I still feel that I'm going slow. Time IS the only problem. > Uncle Bob also says that you need to put, apart from the normal 40h of work, > 20h hours to improve. How you use them is up t

[The Java Posse] Re: Can code katas make you a better programmer?

> I've attended a one-hour code kata at a conference (BTW, by Gabriele > Lana, who often speaks at northern Italy events) and I found it > interesting. Of course, as usual, it depends on how we do that. A > pinch of salt is always fundamental. I know Gabriele and I attended to one of its performan

[The Java Posse] Can code katas make you a better programmer?

kata? If so do you find it of any utility? Cheers, Mario Fusco twitter: @mariofusco -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, sen

[The Java Posse] Re: Scala is complete esoteric nonsense!

> And why does everyone keep talking about DSL's? Let me give you an example of a wonderful DSL written in Scala: http://wiki.github.com/alaz/mongo-scala-driver/ As you can easily understand this is the Scala driver for MongoDB. Just note the small code examples you can find in the home page of

[The Java Posse] Re: Scala is complete esoteric nonsense!

Windows already installed. In the same way managers and companies ask for Java developer since they are easier to be sell. c. For some reason, especially in our field, the best technology is rarely the winning one. Bye, Mario Fusco twitter: @mariofusco -- You received this message because

[The Java Posse] Re: Who is using Scala in the real world?

> There is a big misunderstanding in this thread. You don't have to > persuade __me__ - I'm just impersonating the average employer out > there I must admit I don't like the employer you are impersonating, but in the same way I must say it is sadly similar to some situations I experienced during m

[The Java Posse] Re: Who is using Scala in the real world?

> >> In fact, it turned out that learning Scala made me a better Java > >> programmer = win for my employer > > ... as soon as you keep working for him. Hi Fabrizio, I agree with Viktor on this point. I believe learning Scala makes me also a better Java programmer because it allowed me to view so

[The Java Posse] Re: Who is using Scala in the real world?

> Hope that demonstrates one case where it is useful. If you can get to > JavaOne, I will be doing my Funky Java, Objective Scala talk there, > and I hope I can make my case more strongly :-). > > Dick Thanks a lot Dick. Your talk was already registered in my Schedule Builder :) Actually I tried

[The Java Posse] Re: Scala is complete esoteric nonsense!

n Odersky, Lex Spoon & Bill Venners back in 2003 I'd probably have never created Groovy." My 2 cents, Mario Fusco twitter: @mariofusco -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to j

[The Java Posse] Re: BOF at JavaOne full!

I am from Switzerland as well and, like you, I have been very disappointed when I saw that the Java Posse BOF is already full. Since I am skeptical that Oracle will give us a bigger room I have a different proposal: what about a Java Posse Beer in SF after the BOF? Last year I was here: http://ww

[The Java Posse] Who is using Scala in the real world?

on of mine? And conversely, how many are using Scala in their day by day job? 2. For who is using Scala, do you find a real advantage in that? 3. How could I convince people in my company to do part of our development in Scala? Cheers, Mario Fusco twitter: @mariofusco -- You received this message b

[The Java Posse] Re: Google Engineer Decries Complexity of Java, C++

e pleasant. BTW I am curious to know how many of the developers participating to this mailing list are allowed to do a significant part of their job in scala. Bye, Mario Fusco twitter: @mariofusco P.S.: if you are aware of an open job position where I could do something more than just play w

[The Java Posse] Re: Google Engineer Decries Complexity of Java, C++

> Which implies Java is only providing a low level core and expecting the > "ecosystem" to build usable libraries based on it. > > Yet, when looking at many of the libraries I use regularly, I get the > opposite impression.  It seems more common to take away stuff. I was mainly speaking about the

[The Java Posse] Re: Google Engineer Decries Complexity of Java, C++

> Clearly, the complexity in real life Java projects is in the libraries/ > frameworks/APIs. Those libraries/frameworks/APIs are complex just because real life projects are complex. They are supposed to do something useful and actually they do. They represent the richness of the Java ecosystem and

[The Java Posse] Re: Is functional programming "abstract nonsense"?

y tools as I can in my toolbox (namely OOP and FP) in order to choose the one that best fit my needs case by case. Mario Fusco twitter: @mariofusco -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email

[The Java Posse] Re: Is functional programming "abstract nonsense"?

> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 09:54, Mario Fusco wrote: > > What always surprise me is that > > it often looks more similar to a religious or at least ideological > > discussion than a technical one. Could please somebody explain me why? > > Maybe the reasons are similar

[The Java Posse] Re: Is functional programming "abstract nonsense"?

n achieve a given task in a declarative way means that it has been implemented or at least thought in functional programming style under the hood. Just to bring another example based on my personal experience, with lambdaj I tried to provide a way to manipulate java collections in a declarati

[The Java Posse] Re: Is functional programming "abstract nonsense"?

t to give up to all the benefits of OOP, but I don't think anybody is asking that. Scala is the demonstration of how is possible to take the best of both these programming paradigms. So why shouldn't we try to do the same in Java? My 2 cents Mario Fusco twitter: @mariofusco -- You rece

[The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

> It looks to me that you have a lambda function but definitely not a closure. > On the other hand, for cases where x (in the example) is a class field and > not a local variable, then by combining a lambda function with a local method > you can simulate a closure. That's a great step forward but p

[The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

> I am still struggling with the lambdaj syntax. Here is a Groovy closure > example: > > def x = 10 > def incByX = { arg -> arg + x } > assert incByX(4) == 14 > x = 20 > assert incByX(5) == 25 > > What is the equivalent lambdaj? Hi Paul, you can achieve the same result with lambdaj as it follows

[The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

> Erm, that's kinda why I put it in there :-/ Sorry, but I am afraid I am not understanding what you are saying. Do you agree that your example and mine do exactly the same thing or not? Of course just a "no" it is not enough as answer :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed t

[The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

> Like Neal said, it's a Turing machine. Everything atop of LISP is sugar. The > point is closing over the *binding* not the value. Otherwise it's simply an > implied invocation parameter. I am quite tired to read this nihilistic sentence. If everything that matters is to have a Turing machine why

[The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

> Let me have a crack at it. Here's some Javascript code: > > function showClosure() > { >     var localVar = 7; >     var f = function(x) >         { >             var result = x + localVar; >             localVar = 10; >             return result; >         } >     localVar = 9; >     return f; >

[The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

> Can you please show how a lambdaj "closure" can capture a (mutable) > local variable?  I don't mean show how to get the same effect - I mean > how to actually reference an actual (mutable) local variable from the > scope that encloses a lambda expression? Sorry, but honestly I have not understoo

[The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

> Closures do not increase the set of things that can be computed in the > language; Java is Turing-complete with or without closures, so no such > example exists.  Rather, they expand the kinds of abstractions that > can be conveniently expressed.  See Felleison's "On the Expressive > Power of Pro

[The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

> Lambdaj simply does not do this.  "AdderOf" is an ordinary class, > "add" is an ordinary method, and "first" is an ordinary field of that > class.  There is no expression in your example that defines a function > referencing a variable from the lexically enclosing scope. The feature provided by

[The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

> The hallmark of a closure is that it can contain an identifier that is > bound to a name in a lexically enclosing scope. > > The name "first" does not appear in the "closure", and "first" is not > a variable that is defined in a scope that lexically encloses the > "closure". The closure is the m

[The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

> As you are probably aware, a closure, by definition, captures > variables from the lexically enclosing scope.  Lambdaj simply does > not.  They are not, therefore, closures. > > I don't mean to say lambdaj isn't useful - I'm willing to suspend > disbelief on that.  They just aren't closures. > >

[The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

> I'm not sure -how- you're pulling this off, and it sure looks like an > impressive as hell trick, but if I wanted this closure to do multiple > operations I don't see it, I assume if I had multiple of(this) > statements only the first would get associated with the closure() > definition? Actuall

[The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

> I look forward to being corrected, but all the examples I've seen of > lambaj show things like: > > forEach(someCollection).setSomeMethod(withThis); > > Giving to mind that forEach() returns some dynamic proxy to > someCollection that iterates over it, calling the provided method, > which is grea

[The Java Posse] Re: Closures, too much or too little?

> This version is based on > CLang, > but with # instead of ^.  # is used for method references because that is > the syntax in javadoc.  I would prefer ^ rather than # for function types > and lambdas, but the current spec uses #

[The Java Posse] Re: lambdaj

would be easier if the Iterable was always first, but this isn't a big > deal.) I am Mario Fusco and I am the main developer of the lambdaj project. First of all, thank you for your interest in lambdaj. If you are interested in the project I just opened a google group about it. http://grou