Hello All,
/This is cruel and inappropriate. It's more about killing off your
competition to build yourself up than it is about providing helpful
information. Barbaric is another word that comes to mind./
To be clear I'm not a freelancer. I was in the past for many years, but
I now have an
Granted there are some people who want help, no matter where that help
is coming from - they are fine looking into a telecommuting
contractor. My question is just if this list is the place for it, or
if there is another list specifically for that type of posting. Its
like going to ebay (d
As an employer, i appreciate availability posts and *always* check the person
out, whether we need help at the moment or not.
I hope that freelancers will continue to post their availability on this list.
That's why I am concerned about anything that might inhibit someone from
posting for fear
> we have all in some way or another had to feel the pain
> of cleaning up someone else's code mess
and it's also true that, albeit painful, cleanup work can easily account
for half of the new business development in any freelancer's career... i
for one have been dealing with four-year+ old code f
This has all been an interesting discussion, i think Ben has a lot of
cheers because we have all in some way or another had to feel the pain
of cleaning up someone else's code mess, be it foreign-built or
otherwise. I think the point that it wasn't the place do so might
have some merit, bu
Some people don't see anything unless and until it's happening to them. If it
doesn't have a negative impact on *you*, then I guess everything is fine.
- Original Message
From: RDP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Donna Marie Vincent <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; jobs@lists.nyphp.org
Sent: Saturday,
Oh please Donna, the drama!!
I didn't see any cruelty in Ben's observation.
Rob
- Original Message -
From: Donna Marie Vincent
To: jobs@lists.nyphp.org
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+
yrsofexp
ww.nyphpcon.com
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Sh
Ben
Your email is out of order and a weak attempt to put someone's work down while
making yourself feel better. O... Ben you are such a good programmer that
you exposed errors in Sundar's code. You are so cool. I might name my next
child after you, but he would get beat up in the school
ade an error while performing your job duties?
>> >>
>> >> Even a former employer would not give out this type of
>> >> information. Do you want to be responsible for someone not getting
>> >> work, and ending up homeless on
me source before you work with him.
> >>
> >> - Ben
> >>
> >> sundar rajan wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi
> >> ,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I'm a Freelance Telecommuting PHP/MySQL Programmer
Ben,
Your .02$ may backfire on you. You may have an obligation to your
client to report your opinion but you have an obligation not to report
it to the world at large. I believe it was a bad judgement on your
part and if enough people feel likewise, it may be you who loses work
over it.
Kristina Anderson wrote:
There are some on this list who've previously said that "the market"
will take care of situations where people want to pay low wages to
programmers. One of the ways that "the market" might do this,
theoretically, is to make sure that people find out the hard way, when
Actually it seems Ben did it wrong.
None here born with all knowledge, and surely they improved their
skills by working hard to improve themselves while reading,
researching and experimenting.
So, none here has enough words to point a finger on someone else's
face, talk about skills, etc.
You pay
Hi All,
Thanks for all the criticism to my post & the reply sent by Ben.
Actually I never know who this guys Ben is , I have never worked with him
before & ofcourse he is not my client too.
I have been in this freelancing profession for abt 3+ yrs & never got such
criticism from my clients
I don't think we are trying to kill off the competition just raise the
bar of professionalism.
Ben in his post didn't say outright, Sundar was a bad programmer or
someone you shouldn't work with. He gave a description of Sundar's
work and recommended that you request a work sample. There m
This is cruel and inappropriate. It's more about killing off your competition
to build yourself up than it is about providing helpful information. Barbaric
is another word that comes to mind.
- Original Message
From: RDP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Andrew Wint <[EMAI
There are some on this list who've previously said that "the market"
will take care of situations where people want to pay low wages to
programmers. One of the ways that "the market" might do this,
theoretically, is to make sure that people find out the hard way, when
they hire cheap programme
Donna Marie Vincent wrote:
That's something that should have been done privately and directly to
the person involved.
How do you know Ben's criticism is accurate? How do you know Sundar
hasn't learned to write better code since that time?
This was not the appropriate place for his criticism
I agree with Ben! Yay Ben!
- Original Message -
From: Sean Fulton
To: Andrew Wint
Cc: RDP ; jobs@lists.nyphp.org
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+ yrs
ofexp & good client references
I disag
Sean,
Well said! Thank you for your $.02.
Donna
- Original Message
From: Sean Fulton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Andrew Wint <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: jobs@lists.nyphp.org
Sent: Saturday, August 9, 2008 12:25:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+ yr
That's something that should have been done privately and directly to the
person involved.
How do you know Ben's criticism is accurate? How do you know Sundar hasn't
learned to write better code since that time?
This was not the appropriate place for his criticism.
- Original Message -
I disagree. This wasn't a former employer complaining about a
consultant's work, this was another consultant, a competitor if you
will, stating as fact something that no one can possibly double-check. I
think it's unfair, and am surprised that, on a list dedicated to helping
consultants find jo
All he did was to provide transparency, now we are discussing the
issues. Kristina gave very valid points about the 'delivery of crappy
code' and not being able to take action because they are in another
country.
Another point is that this why we have standards of development
practices, t
Hello,
No, I can't. If the client feels they want to speak up, so be it. I
believe they found you on this list.
- Ben
sundar rajan wrote:
Hey Ben,
Thanks for the criticism, but before making it publicly , you should
have contacted me regarding this.
Anyway no worries , I'm open to hear t
I'm sorry Donna, but I disagree.
It's perfectly fine to express a view about someone's work.
Of course we make errors in our code, everybody does. But you can't evaluate
experience without examining ones work.
And employers DO give out this information. Especially if an individual was
let go
There's been a firestorm of public criticism over "el cheapo Indian
purveyors of crappy half a**ed code" both in general and specifically
against various individuals, and for good reason. Warning someone
against this sort of thing might even be considered a public service in
some cases.
So I
It's my .02$. People are free to make their own decision.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 9, 2008, at 9:26 AM, Donna Marie Vincent <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
It's not only unethical to publicly disparage an individual's
ability to perform a job, you could be subject to legal action.
Have you
It's not only unethical to publicly disparage an individual's ability to
perform a job, you could be subject to legal action.
Have you ever made an error while performing your job duties?
Even a former employer would not give out this type of information. Do you
want to be responsible for some
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