Re: Challenging clients, why another ping-pong?

2014-02-06 Thread Nico Williams
I brain-o'ed on privacy protection. I understand what you meant now. See what Greg and Russ have to say. But I'll add a piece here as well: - HTTP is not a simple protocol: there are proxies and routers involved. - HTTP servers often act as routers. - There can be many hops. - A notional

Re: Challenging clients, why another ping-pong?

2014-02-06 Thread Russ Allbery
Rick van Rein writes: > Thanks, the terminology has indeed been confusing to me. I suppose > things are as they are — or, as they have grown. The short but less polite version is that HTTP-Negotiate with SPNEGO is a horrible hack from a Kerberos perspective. It sort of works as long as you kno

Re: Challenging clients, why another ping-pong?

2014-02-06 Thread Rick van Rein
Hi Greg, Thanks, the terminology has indeed been confusing to me. I suppose things are as they are — or, as they have grown. Thanks, -Rick Kerberos mailing list Kerberos@mit.edu https://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/kerberos

Re: Challenging clients, why another ping-pong?

2014-02-06 Thread Greg Hudson
On 02/06/2014 08:42 AM, Rick van Rein wrote: > In my RFC 4599 it says "The initial WWW-Authenticate header will not carry > any gssapi-data.” and I was wondering if I missed some cryptographic reason > to delay the challenge until later. Some terminology clarification is in order: * SPNEGO (RFC

Re: Challenging clients, why another ping-pong?

2014-02-06 Thread Rick van Rein
Hi Nico, Thanks for your extensive response! > GSS-API exchanges always begin with an initial security context token. > SPNEGO can carry an initial security context token for an > optimistically selected mechanism. In my RFC 4599 it says "The initial WWW-Authenticate header will not carry any g

Re: Challenging clients, why another ping-pong?

2014-02-05 Thread Nico Williams
On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 5:58 AM, Rick van Rein wrote: > Hello Greg, > >> What are you looking at specifically? GSSAPI exchanges begin with the >> client. > > I thought you might say that. I was looking at SPNEGO, which embeds GSSAPI > but where the initiative is (usually) taken by the server. I

Re: Challenging clients, why another ping-pong?

2014-02-04 Thread Rick van Rein
Hello Greg, > What are you looking at specifically? GSSAPI exchanges begin with the > client. I thought you might say that. I was looking at SPNEGO, which embeds GSSAPI but where the initiative is (usually) taken by the server. It’s a waste that SPNEGO doesn’t communicate a challenge at that

Re: Challenging clients, why another ping-pong?

2014-02-03 Thread Greg Hudson
On 02/03/2014 09:41 AM, Rick van Rein wrote: > Looking at SPNEGO (and probably other protocols as well) I see that the > server can take the initiative for an GSSAPI exchange, and when doing so, it > could already challenge the client. What are you looking at specifically? GSSAPI exchanges begi

Challenging clients, why another ping-pong?

2014-02-03 Thread Rick van Rein
Hello, GSSAPI-based protocols have an option of challenging a client with a counter value. This is done after the client submits a ticket. Looking at SPNEGO (and probably other protocols as well) I see that the server can take the initiative for an GSSAPI exchange, and when doing so, it could