Re: [LARTC] How to fight with encrypted p2p

2007-12-10 Thread the sew
Hi, We had similiar problem with p2p, used ipp2p and L7filter together before and worked well until clients( mostly clever ones) started getting around it with encryption. We have about 700 wireless clients hitting our network and our network was taking big knocks with guys using couple of gigs

Re: [LARTC] How to fight with encrypted p2p

2007-12-03 Thread Gustin Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I believe fighting is the wrong approach. Badly shaping the wrong traffic is just as bad, if not worse IMO. An ISP in my neck of the woods plays havoc with encrypted mail (SMTP + TLS as well as IMAPS) as a result of their P2P fight. Needless to say

Re: [LARTC] How to fight with encrypted p2p

2007-12-03 Thread Andrew Beverley
I believe fighting is the wrong approach. Badly shaping the wrong traffic is just as bad, if not worse IMO. An ISP in my neck of the woods plays havoc with encrypted mail (SMTP + TLS as well as IMAPS) as a result of their P2P fight. Needless to say we no longer use them, and we encourage

Re: [LARTC] How to fight with encrypted p2p

2007-12-02 Thread Andrew Beverley
I believe that whole question is in topic. Is there any way to recognize ( and then shape ) p2p traffic which is encrypted? Modern p2p clients have this ability moreover some of them have this enabled by default. Now I'm using ipp2p for iptables but as I know this doesn't recognize

Re: [LARTC] How to fight with encrypted p2p

2007-11-14 Thread Klaus
About ipp2p, Right now, the battle against p2p is lost with l7 detection from ipp2p, l7 filter and others. Why ?? It is a known fact that pattern matching does not work with full encrypted P2P handshakes based on DHT key exchange algorithms with byte padding. You have absolutely no byte pattern

Re: [LARTC] How to fight with encrypted p2p

2007-11-14 Thread Sébastien CRAMATTE
Sorry ... I'm little bite tired ... I mean that we might sponsor Klauss and L7 team to develop this ... Regards Sébastien CRAMATTE escribió: Klauss, Could you Might be you can sponsor the development ... Regards Sébastien Klaus escribió: About ipp2p, Right now, the battle

[LARTC] How to fight with encrypted p2p

2007-11-13 Thread Marcin Stanczyk
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi I believe that whole question is in topic. Is there any way to recognize ( and then shape ) p2p traffic which is encrypted? Modern p2p clients have this ability moreover some of them have this enabled by default. Now I'm using ipp2p

Re: [LARTC] How to fight with encrypted p2p

2007-11-13 Thread Grant Taylor
On 11/11/07 19:51, sAwAr wrote: Is there any way to recognize ( and then shape ) p2p traffic which is encrypted? Modern p2p clients have this ability moreover some of them have this enabled by default. Now I'm using ipp2p for iptables but as I know this doesn't recognize encrypted traffic.

Re: [LARTC] How to fight with encrypted p2p

2007-11-13 Thread Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
On 13.11.2007 16:09, Grant Taylor wrote: On 11/11/07 19:51, sAwAr wrote: Is there any way to recognize ( and then shape ) p2p traffic which is encrypted? Modern p2p clients have this ability moreover some of them have this enabled by default. Now I'm using ipp2p for iptables but as I know

Re: [LARTC] How to fight with encrypted p2p

2007-11-13 Thread Grant Taylor
On 11/13/07 09:37, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote: Well, you can surely try. But then again, I have been doing research (publication pending) in traffic-pattern-based detection of VoIP flows and peer-to-peer connections. While it usually is easy to find a pattern matching your particular traffic

Re[2]: [LARTC] How to fight with encrypted p2p

2007-11-13 Thread Konstantin Astafjev
Hello , Tuesday, November 13, 2007, 5:09:32 PM, you wrote: Encrypted or not, I believe all traffic can be somewhat recognized by its usage pattern(s). However there may be more false positives. We may end up recognizing what we know as good and putting the rest at a lower class of

Re: [LARTC] How to fight with encrypted p2p

2007-11-13 Thread Marco Aurelio
As you might have seen, these are words from ipp2p author: I have seen some pieces of code from ipoque which can detect encypted bittorrent and edonkey traffic. Unforunately, this code will not work with iptables, because it needs more information about the flow history and the history of an ip

Re: [LARTC] How to fight with encrypted p2p

2007-11-12 Thread sawar
Rtorrent which I use sometimes have ability to completely disable plain text communication : man rtorrent allow_incoming (allow incoming encrypted connections), try_outgoing (use encryption for outgoing connections), require (disable unencrypted handshakes), require_RC4 (also

[LARTC] How to fight with encrypted p2p

2007-11-11 Thread sAwAr
Hi I believe that whole question is in topic. Is there any way to recognize ( and then shape ) p2p traffic which is encrypted? Modern p2p clients have this ability moreover some of them have this enabled by default. Now I'm using ipp2p for iptables but as I know this doesn't recognize

Re: [LARTC] How to fight with encrypted p2p

2007-11-11 Thread Mohan Sundaram
sAwAr wrote: Hi I believe that whole question is in topic. Is there any way to recognize ( and then shape ) p2p traffic which is encrypted? Modern p2p clients have this ability moreover some of them have this enabled by default. Now I'm using ipp2p for iptables but as I know this doesn't

Re: [LARTC] How to fight with encrypted p2p

2007-11-11 Thread David Bierce
Some clients P2P clients are nice about there encryption and negotiate encryption ahead of time using plain communication. I.E. Limewire, Azureus. However, some just start TLS and that is all you can see. Looking at ipp2ps signatures, I don't see anything that leads me to believe they