On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 03:37:37PM +0200, Michael Schnell wrote:
> On 04/15/2016 03:29 PM, Marco van de Voort wrote:
> >> As said: I (unsuccessfully) tried.
> > So you can't operate a text editor?
> >
> I unsuccessfully tried to create an environment that lets me see the
> modified help text (we a
Am 2016-04-18 um 12:53 schrieb Michael Schnell:
On 04/18/2016 12:40 PM, Ondrej Pokorny wrote:
No, the equation includes everything along with everybody's interests.
Example:
You spend X hours to write documentation for A that saves Y hours to Z users
that otherwise had to study the code.
Then
On 18.04.2016 12:53, Michael Schnell wrote:
On 04/18/2016 12:40 PM, Ondrej Pokorny wrote:
No, the equation includes everything along with everybody's interests.
Example:
You spend X hours to write documentation for A that saves Y hours to
Z users that otherwise had to study the code.
Then yo
On 18/04/16 11:53, Michael Schnell wrote:
> On 04/18/2016 12:40 PM, Ondrej Pokorny wrote:
>>
>> No, the equation includes everything along with everybody's
>> interests.
>>
>> Example: You spend X hours to write documentation for A that saves
>> Y hours to Z users that otherwise had to study the
On 04/18/2016 12:40 PM, Ondrej Pokorny wrote:
No, the equation includes everything along with everybody's interests.
Example:
You spend X hours to write documentation for A that saves Y hours to Z
users that otherwise had to study the code.
Then you can compare X to Y*Z.
That was my initial
On 18.04.2016 12:27, Michael Schnell wrote:
On 04/15/2016 08:50 PM, Florian Klämpfl wrote:
It is very very simple for a non-profit/OSS project: more man hours
earned back than those which were invested.
that would completely ignore the interest of the users of the project.
(Which in commercia
On 04/15/2016 08:50 PM, Florian Klämpfl wrote:
It is very very simple for a non-profit/OSS project: more man hours
earned back than those which were invested.
that would completely ignore the interest of the users of the project.
(Which in commercial projects can be measured in the revenue.)
Am 15.04.2016 um 15:39 schrieb Michael Schnell:
> On 04/15/2016 03:30 PM, Marco van de Voort wrote:
>> And an investment in manhours to make that happen that IMHO will never be
>> earned back.
> I can't contradict.
>
> But in fact "earned back" is extremely hard to define when comparing two far
On 04/15/2016 03:30 PM, Marco van de Voort wrote:
And an investment in manhours to make that happen that IMHO will never
be earned back.
I can't contradict.
But in fact "earned back" is extremely hard to define when comparing two
far distant edges of a non-profit project.
-Michael
--
_
On 04/15/2016 03:29 PM, Marco van de Voort wrote:
As said: I (unsuccessfully) tried.
So you can't operate a text editor?
I unsuccessfully tried to create an environment that lets me see the
modified help text (we already did discuss this some years ago).
AFAIR, I did send (you ?) a modified
On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 10:01:26AM +0200, Michael Schnell wrote:
> On 04/11/2016 09:28 PM, Marco van de Voort wrote:
> > It is the conjecture that the content will actually improve because of it
> > that I find highly doubtful.
> >
> Absolutely agreed ! An unmanaged Wiki would be highly dangerous.
On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 10:02:56AM +0200, Michael Schnell wrote:
> On 04/11/2016 09:34 PM, Marco van de Voort wrote:
> >> Maybe you do remember that (with your help) I once tried to contribute
> >> to the fpc help.
> > Sorry, can't remember any patches, so it can't have been too serious!
> >
> As s
2016-04-09 12:20 GMT+02:00 Giuliano Colla :
> Il 08/04/2016 21:13, Juha Manninen ha scritto:
>
>> Welcome to open source.
>> Instead of complaining here and wasting everybody's time, you could
>> have improved the documentation yourself and provide a patch.
>>
>
> In principle you're right. Howeve
On 04/11/2016 09:34 PM, Marco van de Voort wrote:
Maybe you do remember that (with your help) I once tried to contribute
to the fpc help.
Sorry, can't remember any patches, so it can't have been too serious!
As said: I (unsuccessfully) tried.
-Michael
--
_
On 04/11/2016 09:28 PM, Marco van de Voort wrote:
It is the conjecture that the content will actually improve because of it
that I find highly doubtful.
Absolutely agreed ! An unmanaged Wiki would be highly dangerous. A
complete managing system on top of the standard Wiki software would be
req
On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 01:00:46PM +0200, Michael Schnell wrote:
> On 04/11/2016 12:30 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> > What's so hard about this:
>
> Maybe you do remember that (with your help) I once tried to contribute
> to the fpc help.
Sorry, can't remember any patches, so it can't have bee
On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 01:28:40PM +0200, Mattias Gaertner wrote:
> >
> > Uh? I don't believe that anybody takes a patch from Mantis and applies
> > it blindly without actually looking at the patch. If they do, that is
> > very sad news for the Lazarus project.
>
> No one is applying blindly patc
On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 11:59:39AM +0200, Michael Schnell wrote:
> On 04/11/2016 11:26 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> > Wiki's are only good for knowledge base - adding random thoughts as
> > pages - loosely linked together by cross-links. It is terrible as a
> > help format/medium.
>
> While I
On 2016-04-11 12:49, Michael Schnell wrote:
> OSX is based on BSD,
>
> So maybe this is not really Volunteer driven :-)
Apple had nothing to do with it. FreeBSD's documentation existed long
before OSX saw the light of day.
Regards,
- Graeme -
--
_
On 04/11/2016 01:37 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
FreeBSD has.
OSX is based on BSD,
So maybe this is not really Volunteer driven :-)
-Michael
--
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Lazarus mailing list
Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailma
On 2016-04-11 12:19, Michael Schnell wrote:
> Anyway: just dreaming. Volunteer driven systems never get there.
FreeBSD has. So there is hope for others. ;-)
FreeBSD's documentation is impressive and complete. Not only do they
have very extensive "handbook" documentation in different languages,
the
On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:56:38 +0100
Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> On 2016-04-11 11:50, Mattias Gaertner wrote:
> >> > Currently with the wiki, rubbish can be added and no review is done!
> > You could say the same for the fpdoc files.
>
> Uh? I don't believe that anybody takes a patch from Mantis a
On 04/11/2016 01:12 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
... and we are talking about Lazarus documentation here
Of course at this location we are.
But a documentation decently usable by the Lazarus "customer" needs to
cover (at least) IDE, LCL, the language, the compiler, RTL, and the
most common
On 2016-04-11 12:00, Michael Schnell wrote:
>
> Maybe you do remember that (with your help) I once tried to contribute
> to the fpc help.
1) If you can type, you can contribute.
2) The other thing you need to know:
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Creating_A_Patch
That's it!
> mail, maybe it
On 04/11/2016 12:30 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
What's so hard about this:
Maybe you do remember that (with your help) I once tried to contribute
to the fpc help.
I failed to do this in a decent way (I finally sent in the text per
mail, maybe it had been included in the next release of the
On 2016-04-11 11:50, Mattias Gaertner wrote:
>> > Currently with the wiki, rubbish can be added and no review is done!
> You could say the same for the fpdoc files.
Uh? I don't believe that anybody takes a patch from Mantis and applies
it blindly without actually looking at the patch. If they do,
On 04/11/2016 12:18 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
Currently with the wiki, rubbish can be added and no review is done! The
wiki is the best of the worst.
Of course (and as I said) the wiki for the help needs to be managed. The
writer needs to see what he did (at best integrated in the help view o
On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:18:25 +0100
Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
>[...]
> Currently with the wiki, rubbish can be added and no review is done!
You could say the same for the fpdoc files.
IMO review means someone else reads it and reports/fixes errors. This is
done for both though in different form.
On 2016-04-11 11:04, Michael Schnell wrote:
> Unless
> you go a very hard way to be able to compile the complete help system
What's so hard about this:
fpdoc --project=lcl-docs-project.xml --format=html
or
fpdoc --project=lcl-docs-project.xml --format=chm
or
fpdoc --project=lcl-docs-projec
On 2016-04-11 10:59, Michael Schnell wrote:
> that might be able to allow for possible volunteers to do contributions
As Mattias mentioned, Lazarus IDE even includes a fpdoc editor built-in.
You can't get easier than that! You don't even have to leave the IDE.
Then simply generated a patch and po
On 04/11/2016 11:26 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
Yes, it's called "fpdoc" and have been around for years!
Of course I do know this.
I did play with it.
Its a kind of "Write only memory": you don't see what you did. (Unless
you go a very hard way to be able to compile the complete help syste
On 04/11/2016 11:26 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
Wiki's are only good for knowledge base - adding random thoughts as
pages - loosely linked together by cross-links. It is terrible as a
help format/medium.
While I do see your point I can't think of any other authoring system
that might be able
On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:26:40 +0100
Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
>[...]
> Yes, it's called "fpdoc" and have been around for years! It takes a
> minute or two to generate your own help in whatever format you prefer -
> HTML, CHM, INF, TXT etc. Users can contribute by supplying documentation
> patches.
On 2016-04-11 09:11, Michael Schnell wrote:
> (e.g. by using a single managed Wiki exclusively as the root
> of the articles)
Wiki's are only good for knowledge base - adding random thoughts as
pages - loosely linked together by cross-links. It is terrible as a help
format/medium.
The other prob
On 04/09/2016 04:07 PM, Giuliano Colla wrote:
Because without a minimal amount of documentation all this valuable
work risks to be useless, because:
- nobody except a few core developers know of its existence
- nobody except the developer itself knows how to use it
There already have been lo
Il 09/04/2016 16:41, Juha Manninen ha scritto:
Comments are overrated.
If you think of them as "deodorant masking fishy code" then less
comments is better.
Comments may help to clarify what is obvious to you at the moment of
writing, but not to anybody else, and maybe even to you some time lat
On 9 April 2016 at 22:41, Juha Manninen wrote:
> Are you good in drawing diagrams?
>
:-) Me? I'm useless at drawing and at documentation.
When I contributed to mplayer, I came up with three tactics of
documentation - expanded comments in code,
http://wiki.freepascal.org/TMPlayerControl and a
Il 09/04/2016 16:22, Juha Manninen ha scritto:
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Giuliano Colla
wrote:
Because without a minimal amount of documentation all this valuable work
risks to be useless, because:
- nobody except a few core developers know of its existence
- nobody except the developer i
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 5:18 PM, Michael Thompson
wrote:
> You say minimal, code analysis says Average.
Comments are overrated.
If you think of them as "deodorant masking fishy code" then less
comments is better.
What would really help are high level documents of IDE internals.
Diagrams and textua
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Giuliano Colla
wrote:
> Because without a minimal amount of documentation all this valuable work
> risks to be useless, because:
> - nobody except a few core developers know of its existence
> - nobody except the developer itself knows how to use it
LCL is document
On 9 April 2016 at 22:07, Giuliano Colla
wrote:
> Because without a minimal amount of documentation all this valuable work
> risks to be useless, because:
> - nobody except a few core developers know of its existence
> - nobody except the developer itself knows how to use it
from OpenHub (which
Il 09/04/2016 14:03, Juha Manninen ha scritto:
Why all this valuable work from me and from other developers is ignored?
Because without a minimal amount of documentation all this valuable work
risks to be useless, because:
- nobody except a few core developers know of its existence
- nobody e
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 1:20 PM, Giuliano Colla
wrote:
> An answer such as: "Your patch is good, it adds a desirable functionality,
> but without proper documentation, nobody will be able to take advantage of
> it. Please add some concise comments on variable and procedure usage, and we
> will be g
Am 2016-04-09 um 12:20 schrieb Giuliano Colla:
> An answer such as: "Your patch is good, it adds a desirable
functionality,
> but without proper documentation, nobody will be able to take advantage
of it.
> Please add some concise comments on variable and procedure usage, and we
> will be glad to c
Am 2016-04-09 um 12:20 schrieb Giuliano Colla:
> An answer such as: "Your patch is good, it adds a desirable functionality, but
without proper documentation, nobody will be able to take advantage of it. Please add some
concise comments on variable and procedure usage, and we will be glad to co
Il 08/04/2016 21:13, Juha Manninen ha scritto:
Welcome to open source.
Instead of complaining here and wasting everybody's time, you could
have improved the documentation yourself and provide a patch.
In principle you're right. However you should take into account some
other factors.
Frequen
On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 9:33 PM, Alan Corey wrote:
> OK, I was just hoping for a sentence or paragraph to be added to the
> documentation.
Welcome to open source.
Instead of complaining here and wasting everybody's time, you could
have improved the documentation yourself and provide a patch.
You
Re: [Lazarus] Suggestion for TRadioGroup documentation
OK, I was just hoping for a sentence or paragraph to be added to the
documentation. In HTML you group radiobuttons by giving every button
in the group the same name but different values. I started with a
tgroupbox then went to a tradiogroupb
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