ion because it is (currently) neither
>constant nor predictable to a sufficient degree.
Nor is it, for that matter, "universal" in any relevant meaning
of the word.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD commit
In message <83e442cd-4a84-4493-8e60-867af882b...@noao.edu>, Rob Seaman writes:
>I wrote:
>
>>> Which is why the international civil timekeeping standard should be tied to
>>> physical reality.
>
>...but Poul-Henning Kamp said:
>
>> 1. There i
The entire point of the Meter Convention and of eliminating the
leap-second hack from UTC, is that we don't need to deal with each
government one by one.
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer
ive matter.
2. Nobody but the respective legal entities can decide what it should
be tied to.
3. As we all have seen amply documented.
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD sin
ng that the IERS announcement comes out over 5 months
>in advance and that the GPS operations fairly quickly enters it into the
>system, you can with some good certainty know if you may have missed it
>and is affected.
I think you should read "off for a while" as "the 10
In message <51586ae7-0241-4330-85e4-022bb0d37...@pipe.nl>, Nero Imhard writes:
>
>On 2010-12-23, at 23:03, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>
>> DCF77 reception in Denmark degrades enormously due to all the fireworks
>> we loft.
>
>Euh... the signal is 77.5 KHz. Rather l
implement the leap second broadly?
GPS does.
DCF77's leapsecond bit is terrible, it only gives one hour of warning.
This is the hour after midnight local time and on new-years eve
DCF77 reception in Denmark degrades enormously due to all the fireworks
we loft.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp
l time.
>
>You might want to rephrase that as a trivia question: WHERE under
>U.S. jurisdiction is UTC (no offset) the legal, civil time?
And the answer would have been, during the time where POSIX was a
government requirement: In all the computers.
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Hen
In message <2010103603.gk3...@ucolick.org>, Steve Allen writes:
>On Wed 2010-12-22T18:46:56 +0000, Poul-Henning Kamp hath writ:
>> Broadcast time *IS* civil time, it is broadcast as a service to civilians.
>>
>> Take Germanys DCF77 as example:
>>
>> DCF7
DCF77 does not transmit UTC, it transmits German summer or
winter time, as indicated by one of the bits. It does not transmit
the numeric difference between broadcast time and UTC nor for that
matter DUT1.
[2] Possibly 20, this is from memory.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus
In message <3de069eb-7182-4e5b-a462-90041cb26...@ucolick.org>, Steve Allen writ
es:
>On 2010 Dec 19, at 09:32, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>As it stands, as it is in use by various standards and systems,
>UTC is irreparably broken. Discarding the name "UTC" for the
>t
In message <3436c6b7-34e7-425c-bf0a-632880351...@ucolick.org>, Steve Allen writ
es:
>On 2010 Dec 19, at 08:58, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>> Are you seriously suggesting that DCF77 and WWVB should not
>> transmit the time people expect to see on their clocks ?
>
>Yes.
&
In message <60007541-eeb9-4802-9288-9d5af7ba0...@ucolick.org>, Steve Allen writ
es:
>On 2010 Dec 19, at 08:07, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>> Right, and you are advocating changing the POSIX standard, so ?
>
>The POSIX standard is broken, admittedly broken, by insisting that
>
In message , Rob Seaman writes:
>On Dec 19, 2010, at 2:07 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>
>> Well, enourmous or not, we simply do not know, and Rob doesn't think
>> it is so important to find them, that we should develop a time-estimate
>> for how long time it wil
the current POSIX hack
can be distributed preconfigured in operating systems.
Gerard writes:
>Poul-Henning Kamp made some inquiries about how quickly Rob could review
>code. I suggest this question misses a few important items.
Actually it doesn't.
Initially I simply wanted to esti
support leap seconds, but they
>would not experience any trouble with dropping the insertions of leap
>seconds.
Exactly. But these computers are just magically wished away by the
astronomers.
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP
the standard to whatever you like, but I guess
>few would comply.
The xtime() functions have been here for most of a decade and few people
know about them...
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD s
urce code can you review for leap-second sensitivity in
an hour ?
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by inco
In message <89576419-9ca9-4fb3-83ff-05d958ce8...@noao.edu>, Rob Seaman writes:
>I wrote:
>
>>> Then it should be straightforward to perform the inventory of
>>> the different segments, systems, and software to demonstrate one
>>> or the other of these
review per hour ?
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
___
LEAPSE
In message <3b33e89c51d2de44be2f0c757c656c8809d66...@mail02.stk.com>, "Finklema
n, Dave" writes:
>ITU has UN funding.
Actually, I'm not even sure to what degree that is the case.
ITU charges fees for participation and their standards as well.
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-H
ISO gets involved...
Long live Parkinssons law...
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
In message <20101213190904.ga1...@ucolick.org>, Steve Allen writes:
>On Mon 2010-12-13T18:52:18 +0000, Poul-Henning Kamp hath writ:
>> Actually, I'm pretty sure time is entirely independent of which
>> way you orient the Earth.
>
>It is barely a decade during which
ely use you quixotic quest as an example if
he ever writes a follow-up.
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately
ith DUT one, they will never win that argument.
If Geophysicist announced leap seconds with at least 10 years
firm notice, 90% of the problems they cause would be eliminated
by the normal software update cycle.
And now: Please shut your trap until you have taken time to find
out what we are talki
;You are trying to paint an illusion that all clocks in the world tick
>over in unison.
No, I'm trying to point out that you are an ignoranmus in this context
with your "within some minutes is plenty" blanket statements.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...
rutine use of a sextant. The windows have minimal upward view these
days, to give better radiation protection for the crew.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to
ed between client and server within the
>local LAN.
>3. syncronization does not need to absolutely represent real time.
>4. leap seconds, or the absence thereof, make no difference
You forgot:
5. Canibalism is a problem the Navy has mostly under control.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp
km.
You have just confirmed my suspicion that you have not a wisper of
a clue about what you are pontificating about.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice
In message <1292109115.24926.42.ca...@localhost>, Paul Sheer writes:
>On Sat, 2010-12-11 at 22:35 +0000, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>> But that does not allow us to ignore the servers which are
>> synchronized and which need to be synchronized to work.
>
>I disagree
ate syncronization.
Ohh we do, we most certainly do.
But that does not allow us to ignore the servers which are
synchronized and which need to be synchronized to work.
Poul-Henning
PS: Your caps-lock seems to be flakey.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org
n't affect
>> service.
>
>I have a script that dumps the timestamps of each of a number of
>servers where I work; this is a recent result:
Why are you not running NTP properly ?
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since
heard of NTP, but have zero clue about how to
configure it correctly ?
Makes sense...
I pity your customers.
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to
ity you have for this pronouncement ?
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
___
don't use them ever again :-)
The crucial change in exactly the last 40 years, is that computers
of all sizes are communicating and the applications we want them
to run for us, very much need to know and agree what time it is.
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Ze
bly still in order.
But I have to disappoint you, I don't think a random piece of
PHP code will convince anybody anywhere...
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never
le
with "universal" in it, depends on one particular lump of rotating rock.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what
In message <3b33e89c51d2de44be2f0c757c656c88099aa...@mail02.stk.com>, "Finklema
n, Dave" writes:
>3. The ITU is constituted under the UN as a regulatory agency without
>the force of law.
Check the fine print...
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus
In message <3290398649bcc00c9c5e57792582bc1e.squir...@mx.pipe.nl>, "Nero Imhard
" writes:
>Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>But the ITU proposal is not only about getting rid of leap seconds. It
>tries to do this in a way that punishes proper engineering attempts of
>those
nd. no ? If you look
outta you window Daniel, you see dat nice red car ? Dat runs so
fast nobbody needs any leap seconds and it can be all yours Daniel...
Nahh, he's french, cars probably wouldn't work...
:-)
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus
the mean synodic day.
And leapseconds is the means to the end that DUT1 should be < 1s.
What benefit does non-astronomers have from DUT1 < 1s ?
None that I can see...
None that you have documented ?
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org
d.
The only intrinsic benefit of your proposal, is that it will become
possible to actually test the leap-second handling code in a
regular project life-cycle.
Either way: There's no getting around that just dropping leap
seconds is a no-cost option for computers.
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henn
lling out of the sky because of them, and being
involved in a number of ATC applications, that is not an empty joke
for me.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute t
erable PHK cannot
>foresee.
So far, astronomers have messed with our timekeeping at least once
every 20 years for the last 200 years, so I do think we have the
necessary agility to fix any problems before they become insurmountable.
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX sin
In message <20101103013706.ga9...@ucolick.org>, Steve Allen writes:
>On Wed 2010-11-03T01:30:15 +0000, Poul-Henning Kamp hath writ:
>> What is the benefit of leap-seconds to non-astronomers ?
>
>http://www.google.com/images?q=dennis+di+cicco+analemma&hl=en&client=safa
In message , Mark Calabretta writes:
>
>On Wed 2010/11/03 00:03:16 -0000, "Poul-Henning Kamp" wrote
>in a message to: Leap Second Discussion List
>
>>Leap seconds carry no discernible benefit to non-astronomers so
>>even if they were trivial to code correctly, t
In message <4cd0aeda.1010...@bsdimp.com>, Warner Losh writes:
>I don't have any connection to the ITU-R.
And I'm even more disconnected from ITU-R: My country is not
even likely to vote once it comes in front of the general assembly...
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp
unable to yet discern?
Like ?
Is this some sort of "If leap seconds have a benefit but notbody
notices, do we care ?" kind of riddle ?
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since
In message <536635d43949d1db19f5fa0ce101632e.squir...@mx.pipe.nl>, "Nero Imhard
" writes:
>Op 02-11-10 23:56, Poul-Henning Kamp schreef:
>
>> There very much is: With each passing day, the probability that the next
>> leap second will kill somebody because of sl
time seeing what the big deal is...
>But "somehow" is not what is on the table.
Yes, it is "somehow", as in "POSIX is right, TF.460 will be adjusted to
conform to POSIX".
That's not the "somehow" you're rooting for, but it is a "some
7;t tell you a bound, any contemporary OS has
a way to communicate those statistics if they are known (typically
via Dave Mills' system call)
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
ook at.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
___
LEAPSECS mail
er, and that they will have to be
aligned to eachother somehow.
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by
In message <20101102202753.gc21...@ucolick.org>, Steve Allen writes:
>On Tue 2010-11-02T20:22:29 +0000, Poul-Henning Kamp hath writ:
>> It admits no such thing, and for all I know, and despite your
>> complaints about the lack of an "essen" unit, that there is m
In message <20101102194805.gb21...@ucolick.org>, Steve Allen writes:
>On Tue 2010-11-02T18:55:17 +0000, Poul-Henning Kamp hath writ:
>The POSIX standard admits that its "seconds" are not all of the same
>length, and for practical purposes that makes them "mean so
In message <211ee304-6f59-40a1-837f-3f8359f68...@noao.edu>, Rob Seaman writes:
>Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>Except that your suggestion is that we can ignore the whole thing
>because the wisdom of local governance will sort it all out with
>kaleidoscopically shifting timezone po
In message , Tony Fi
nch writes:
>On Tue, 2 Nov 2010, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>>
>> I may be misremembering, I thought the longitude conference was in 1884 ?
>
>Yes, but by that time there had already been 40 years of railway time in
>the UK. We officially switched to a
In message <20101102184333.gy21...@ucolick.org>, Steve Allen writes:
>On Tue 2010-11-02T18:37:11 +0000, Poul-Henning Kamp hath writ:
>The existing international agreement for the meaning
>of "day" is "mean solar day".
You mean "one of the existing...&
In message , Tony Fi
nch writes:
>On Tue, 2 Nov 2010, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>>
>> Finagle Subject to
>> Factor Unit/Resolution politics since
>> ---
econds for convenience is similar.
I am pretty sure that if you told a random sample of people that
"some scientists belive that some days should be one second long
or shorter than usual", they would compare that to the Pi=3 idea,
not the other way around.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp
identical seconds.
In that light, it seems awfully logical that we would want to
nail the length of the days down also...
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute
ou wouldn't by any chance have thought of adding some computer
or telecoms people to that mix ?
Nahhh, probably not necessary, what would computers, networks and
leap seconds have to do with each other...
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org
In message <2b4e4363-72b2-4361-a562-5eb8b9cd1...@noao.edu>, Rob Seaman writes:
>Heretofore the "UT" in UTC has meant "Universal Time".
Just like the 'U' in "UN" has meant "united" with little practical effect...
--
Poul-Henni
In message <8f87309b-663b-4ca8-ba8d-f45c41010...@noao.edu>, Rob Seaman writes:
>On Oct 25, 2010, at 11:50 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>
>> How could it ever be considered good design to embed a politically
>> controled timescale, subject to lots of valid scientific criti
In message <09b6e6af-6426-4068-a4a8-f4ade644a...@noao.edu>, Rob Seaman writes:
>On Oct 25, 2010, at 8:28 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>
>No. Diurnal rhythms are more pronounced than ever in human systems
>and processes. Allowing these to drift is a poor engineering choice.
Ye
w it was the wrong timescale for your astronomical
applications ?
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can ad
remove spurious seconds to their timescale ?
Or one which, given a precise enough frequency standard and knowledge
about your relativistic whereabouts you can tell what time it is,
without caring what a particular and erratic piece of rock does in
another part of the cosmos ?
Poul-Henning
--
P
In message , Rob Seaman writes:
>Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>
>> Why did astronomers use UTC as timescale in their systems, where UT1 should
>> have been used?
>Astronomers use both UTC and the general notion of UT. Sometimes
>they use UT1. We use numerous other timescal
In message <4cc49881.23351.364d6...@dan.tobias.name>, "Daniel R. Tobias" writes
:
>On 24 Oct 2010 at 18:12, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>
>> Medicine production is another case: In continuous production
>> setups, all materials have to be traceable to with second
In message <481e7b03-abea-40a7-a8ef-b82e73c21...@noao.edu>, Rob Seaman writes:
>On Oct 24, 2010, at 11:12 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>And do either of these use cases have any connection to Earth
>orientation?
DUT1 and all other earth orientation parameters have absolutely
no ap
l-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
___
LEAPSEC
ow I do consider your dire forecasts of economic
ruin unsubstantiated handwaving...
Or to put it more bluntly: You and what army ?
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-taho
In message <56b60f42-f2dc-4ea5-88fd-2a0c2aa0a...@noao.edu>, Rob Seaman writes:
>On Oct 22, 2010, at 11:08 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>"Many millions of dollars" is certainly not hyperbole. [...]
I called it handwaving, not hyperbole.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX
t sound technical to me (Economy possibly ?)
B) "Many millions of dollars" ? (Handwaving ?)
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what
they electronic or antique.
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
___
ouple of stairs rather than a
mountain is relevant news :-)
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained
be in a much better position to make this argument, if
the appropriate astronomical assembly would go in the record and
state that Harrisson solved the longitude problem first and best :-)
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
Free
In message <20100906171714.ga27...@ucolick.org>, Steve Allen writes:
>On Mon 2010-09-06T17:11:11 +0000, Poul-Henning Kamp hath writ:
>As such it is long the case that time decisively belongs to
>Dave Mills and the NTP crew.
We in the NTP crew would love to own it, but I can gua
should take time over from ITU-R because they are more recent ?
Given that ITU-T is irrellevant and has been int since they did the
OSI-protocols, I see no point...
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | B
It's anybodys guess if UK could care less.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
_
In message , Rob Seaman writes:
>On Sep 5, 2010, at 8:00 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>Oh! Other than astronomy - the one and only place we've looked
>sufficiently well enough to know the answer.
So far I don't recall one single example having been proffered outside
astrono
ystem
on UTC time, rather than local time.
2. In civilized parts of the world, we know about these days 5+ years
in advance.
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
le draft of TF.460 suggesting that outcome?
My personal estimate: No chance in hell, unless significant external
pressure is applied.
For all practical purposes POSIX/OpenGroup is a dead end, but it
is the best dead end we have.
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.2
linded by science, but doesn't such a current
>lack describe rather a massive business opportunity? The ultimate
>source of all economic activity is entrepreneurial adaptation to
>real world possibilities.
Not as long as it is cheaper to fudge leap seconds some other way.
--
Pou
ITU temporal blitzkrieg, but rather were focusing on
>building consensus for a coherently engineered system...
I don't remember ever seeing even a hint of a plan for how you plan to
get POSIX/OpenGroup standards updated and enforced.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
icular company, is that there is no economical
way to test that a GPS based timing infrastructure handles leap-seconds
correctly.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never att
has been relayed to me in confidence
stays in confidence.
Some of these organizations could get in stock-holder or regulatory
trouble, if their "deficient operating practices" were disclosed.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
seconds.
How many reports does that prevent from getting written ?
We don't know, but we do know that managers are willing to do a lot
of work to avoid even the risk of writing the reports..
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP
7. That support would remember it.
None of which are supported by your narrative.
In my experience, the effects of leap seconds seldom if ever get
beyond the first three filters, because leap seconds are "shit that
just happens, and there is nothing we can do about it."
Poul
orry about leap
>seconds have long since worked around the problem.
You should really read the archives, before you say something as stupid
as that.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tah
ay to
peoples telephones, internet connections, flight safety, medicine
production and so on.
Civil time these days would be more correctly called "ornamental time",
because it starts at the VCR, fridge, oven, grandfather clock and other
off-line time displays.
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henni
1752 ?
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
In message <25804530-dbba-4aad-b6d9-441b59dcf...@noao.edu>, Rob Seaman writes:
>Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>When telescopes are outlawed, only outlaws will have telescopes.
Totally off-topic, but to good to not share:
When marriage is outlawed, only outlaws will have inlaws.
--
inition would be
>illegal.
Unless of course, if the nature of the change was to make the presently
non-compliant, and therefore presumably illegal, systems compliant and
thus legal :-)
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD com
In message , Rob Seaman writes:
>Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>
>> ITU-T has UTC written into the standards for cross-TelCo billing
>> interfaces/protocols.
>
>So it's literally true:
>
> Money makes the world go round
Ohh, you bet. Don't remember tha
at's attained the force of law
>through repetitive use [...]
Don't disregard ITU totally here. ITU-T has UTC written into the
standards for cross-TelCo billing interfaces/protocols.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
Fr
nment does not have a position (Ie:
pretty much anything other than frequency allocations).
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice w
th cases).
I can tell you exactly why:
Nobody but scottish farmers have ever raised the position of the
sun in the sky, relative to the hands on the clock, as an argument
with respect to timezones in EU.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP sinc
UK and Portugal in
>WET, rather than the UK shifting the other way.
One of the major objectives of EU is to make trade easier and that is
why they want as few timezones as possible, ideally only one.
That is the logic applied, earths orbit has very little, if anything,
to do with it.
--
Po
In message <20100827164948.ga13...@ucolick.org>, Steve Allen writes:
>Nothing is safe from redefinition.
Tell that to the inumerable rulers who have fixed european borders
one final time after the other.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org
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