Re: [LEAPSECS] civil-solar correlation with TI

2008-12-28 Thread M. Warner Losh
In message: c43e1c7d-f4ed-43bc-8b3e-3f7e62950...@noao.edu Rob Seaman sea...@noao.edu writes: : M. Warner Losh wrote: : : How is the Olson database fundamentally different than the : historical data that a future historian would have based on the : measurements of the delta

Re: [LEAPSECS] civil-solar correlation with TI

2008-12-28 Thread Tony Finch
On Sun, 28 Dec 2008, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In addition to the Olsen database, the book Calendrical Calculations is probably required. Calendrical Calculations isn't a reliable source for historians in the way that the Olson database tries to be. CC is a mechanized description of how

Re: [LEAPSECS] civil-solar correlation with TI

2008-12-28 Thread Zefram
Tony Finch wrote: Calendrical Calculations isn't a reliable source for historians in the way that the Olson database tries to be. CC is a mechanized description of how calendars are supposed to work, Actually it doesn't even fully achieve that. The numerical algorithms are correct, as far as I

Re: [LEAPSECS] civil-solar correlation with TI

2008-12-27 Thread Zefram
Rob Seaman wrote: Again, the issue is mean solar time, not local solar time. This sentence doesn't make sense to me. You seem to have a different definition of either mean or local from me. To be clear: the (periodic) difference between apparent and mean solar time does not affect my argument,

Re: [LEAPSECS] civil-solar correlation with TI

2008-12-27 Thread Rob Seaman
I wrote: Historians looking backward want to relate events worldwide and arrange them into coherent timelines. Zefram replied: Yes, they'll want the Olson database. Precisely. For a scheme such as this to have any chance of working, a requirement is that it be tightly coupled to a

Re: [LEAPSECS] civil-solar correlation with TI

2008-12-27 Thread M. Warner Losh
In message: 20081227134333.gm2...@fysh.org Zefram zef...@fysh.org writes: : Historians looking backward : want to relate events worldwide and arrange them into coherent : timelines. : : Yes, they'll want the Olson database. How is the

Re: [LEAPSECS] civil-solar correlation with TI

2008-12-27 Thread Rob Seaman
M. Warner Losh wrote: How is the Olson database fundamentally different than the historical data that a future historian would have based on the measurements of the delta between what we call today TAI and UT1 times? It is just more data for them to swizzle into their calculations?

Re: [LEAPSECS] civil-solar correlation with TI

2008-12-26 Thread Rob Seaman
On Dec 23, 2008, at 9:33 AM, Zefram wrote: Suppose that people in the future overwhelmingly want local civil time of day to continue to approximate local solar time of day. Again, the issue is mean solar time, not local solar time. An underlying timescale based on mean solar time is what

[LEAPSECS] civil-solar correlation with TI

2008-12-23 Thread Zefram
Daniel R. Tobias wrote: And then your distant descendants will throw a huge fit about the possibility of a leap hour being imposed, which would be much more noticeably disruptive than leap seconds, and will indefinitely block such a thing, until some day noon comes in the middle of the night.

Re: [LEAPSECS] civil-solar correlation with TI

2008-12-23 Thread Tony Finch
On Tue, 23 Dec 2008, Zefram wrote: Either of my scenarios still suffers from the problem that the TI-UT difference accelerates. These timezone offset changes would be needed at decreasing intervals. By the time timezones are jumping by an hour every year, one might expect to see political