Re: War of the Worlds

2006-01-11 Thread John Cowan
Neal McBurnett scripsit: > > I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss tidal braking from Phobos. It's > > awfully close to Mars, and tidal braking is as you say an inverse-cube > > effect. The formula (kai Wikipedia) is (2GMmr)/R^3, where M and m are > > the masses, r is the radius of the primary, and

Re: War of the Worlds

2006-01-11 Thread Neal McBurnett
On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 11:44:13PM -0500, John Cowan wrote: > I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss tidal braking from Phobos. It's > awfully close to Mars, and tidal braking is as you say an inverse-cube > effect. The formula (kai Wikipedia) is (2GMmr)/R^3, where M and m are > the masses, r is the

Re: Monsters from the id

2006-01-11 Thread John Cowan
Rob Seaman scripsit: > Folks have been tossing around the notion of aligning this with daylight > saving time - but DST in what locality? Does anyone really believe that > a leap hour would be introduced on different calendar dates worldwide? > (It seems to me that the one time it is guaranteed N

Re: War of the Worlds

2006-01-11 Thread Neal McBurnett
I referenced this page, but missed the most interesting part of it: http://www.exo.net/~pauld/physics/tides/tidalevolution.htm > The height of a tidal bulge on a planet is proportional to the > inverse cube of the distance between the planet and the object > causing the tidal bulge. The torque wh

Monsters from the id

2006-01-11 Thread Rob Seaman
What now, Dr. Moebius?                      Prepare your minds for a new scale...                    of physical scientific values, gentlemen.Mark Calabretta takes the lazy man's way out and appeals to facts: Here in a topology-free way is what the axis labels of my graph looklike during th

Re: The real problem with leap seconds

2006-01-11 Thread Mark Calabretta
On Wed 2006/01/11 20:58:25 PDT, "M. Warner Losh" wrote in a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and copied to: LEAPSECS@ROM.USNO.NAVY.MIL >: 60.999... 32.999... 32 >:2006/01/01 00:00:00 2006/01/01 00:00:3333 >:2006/01/01 0

Re: War of the Worlds

2006-01-11 Thread John Cowan
Rob Seaman scripsit: > I don't have an envelope large enough, but there are various issues > to consider. The Hurtling Moons of Barsoom are much smaller than our > own and should have a negligible tidal breaking effect. (See http:// > www.freemars.org/mars/marssys.html, for instance, for their >

Re: The real problem with leap seconds

2006-01-11 Thread M. Warner Losh
In message: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mark Calabretta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: : On Wed 2006/01/11 10:47:25 -, Michael Deckers wrote : in a message to: LEAPSECS@ROM.USNO.NAVY.MIL : : > At some instant when TAI took a value in the positive leap second between : > 2006-01-01 + 00 h +

Re: The real problem with leap seconds

2006-01-11 Thread Mark Calabretta
On Wed 2006/01/11 10:47:25 -, Michael Deckers wrote in a message to: LEAPSECS@ROM.USNO.NAVY.MIL > At some instant when TAI took a value in the positive leap second between > 2006-01-01 + 00 h + 00 min + 32 s and 2006-01-01 + 00 h + 00 min + 33 s > (the exact instant is not clear from [IT

Re: The real problem with leap seconds

2006-01-11 Thread Michael Deckers
On 2006-01-11, David Malone wrote: > [A lot of discussion on this list seem to revolve around people > understanding terms in different ways. In an impractical example > of that spirit...] Anyway: excuse me for repeating some basics of classical mechanics; but I believe it to be neces

War of the Worlds

2006-01-11 Thread Rob Seaman
I see Steve Allen has already supplied a thorough answer. Interested individuals might also scrounge through the list archives (http:// rom.usno.navy.mil/archives/leapsecs.html) since the topic has come up before. In fact, Demetrios Matsakis speculated on solar system wide timescales even before

Re: The real problem with leap seconds

2006-01-11 Thread Steve Allen
On Wed 2006-01-11T09:01:07 -0500, Daniel R. Tobias hath writ: > If, however, this Martian second is actually defined as a particular > multiple of the SI second, then the use of leap seconds on Mars would > ultimately be necessary to account for any future changes in the > length of the Martian day

Re: The real problem with leap seconds

2006-01-11 Thread Daniel R. Tobias
On 11 Jan 2006 at 0:08, Tim Shepard wrote: > If humans spread out to other places besides the earth, an > earth-centric time scale might begin to seem somewhat quaint. > Distributing leap second information to a Mars colony seems kind of > silly. As I recall, the NASA Mars missions are using Mars

Re: The real problem with leap seconds

2006-01-11 Thread David Malone
[A lot of discussion on this list seem to revolve around people understanding terms in different ways. In an impractical example of that spirit...] >I do not understand. As a function of TAI, UTC is neither continuous >nor monotone increasing in the mathematical sense. To say if TAI is a

Re: The real problem with leap seconds

2006-01-11 Thread Michael Deckers
On 2006-01-10, Mark Calabretta wrote: > I can't let this one pass - UTC is continuous and monotonic. In fact, > ignoring differences in origin, UTC = TAI. Surprised? If so then > you're confusing a quantity with its representation (though in good > company in doing so). I do not unde