Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Difference between a Produced Work and a Derived Database

2009-03-08 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, Jean-Christophe Haessig wrote: > If section 4.7 > is where it is required to transfer the reverse engineereng clause into > the PW’s license, why doesn’t it say so? If I tell you "I give you this book but it must not be scanned and put on the internet", then while I don't explicitly say "and

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Difference between a Produced Work and a Derived Database

2009-03-08 Thread Jean-Christophe Haessig
Le dimanche 08 mars 2009 à 22:49 +0100, Frederik Ramm a écrit : Hi, > Maybe those who advised you hoped that you would read the ongoing > discussion before posting ;-) Well, I read it, but I felt that the idea was rather dimly suggested… > Current ODbL mandates[*]that the derivative database

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Difference between a Produced Work and a Derived Database

2009-03-08 Thread 80n
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Jean-Christophe Haessig < jean-christophe.haes...@dianosis.org> wrote: > > In fact, we might not have to define what a Produced Work is. Instead, > we could let the producer of the derived work fully decide: My current interpretation of the ODbL is that this is pr

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Difference between a Produced Work and a Derived Database

2009-03-08 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, Jean-Christophe Haessig wrote: > I posted a comment on co-ment and on the wiki use cases page, where it > didn’t seem to belong. I was advised to post it here Maybe those who advised you hoped that you would read the ongoing discussion before posting ;-) Your suggestion is similar to what I

[OSM-legal-talk] Difference between a Produced Work and a Derived Database

2009-03-08 Thread Jean-Christophe Haessig
Hello, I posted a comment on co-ment and on the wiki use cases page, where it didn’t seem to belong. I was advised to post it here, so here it is, and please forgive me for the cross-posting if any of you have already read it. Anyway, that idea seemed to hover around in the last thread. In its cu

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Reverse-Engineering Maps and Share-Alike Licences

2009-03-08 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, Gervase Markham wrote: > I would be reluctant to name them. Assuming the data remains bound by > some form of share-alike, in 50 years time, OSM or OSM derivatives is > going to be the only database anyone ever uses for storing and > retrieving public global mapping data. At that point, we

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Reverse-Engineering Maps and Share-Alike Licences

2009-03-08 Thread Gervase Markham
On 08/03/09 00:23, Frederik Ramm wrote: > I agree with both points, but I would like to try and be pragmatic: > Don't throw out the reverse engineering clause; just add a clause that > explicitly permits releasing Produced Works under a number of named > share-alike licenses. I would be reluctant

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Reverse-Engineering Maps and Share-Alike Licences

2009-03-08 Thread 80n
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Nic Roets wrote: > > > On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Ulf Möller wrote: > >> >> > The problem with this though is that if you make an exemption for >> > CC-BY-SA then you can drive the whole planet file through that loophole. >> >> If you want to close the loopho

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Reverse-Engineering Maps and Share-Alike Licences

2009-03-08 Thread Nic Roets
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Ulf Möller wrote: > > > The problem with this though is that if you make an exemption for > > CC-BY-SA then you can drive the whole planet file through that loophole. > > If you want to close the loophole, you will need to get everyone to > accept the license contr

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Reverse-Engineering Maps and Share-Alike Licences

2009-03-08 Thread Ulf Möller
80n schrieb: > The problem with this though is that if you make an exemption for > CC-BY-SA then you can drive the whole planet file through that loophole. If you want to close the loophole, you will need to get everyone to accept the license contract before letting them look at the map. That

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Reverse-Engineering Maps and Share-Alike Licences

2009-03-08 Thread Richard Weait
On Sun, 2009-03-08 at 13:00 +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote: > If someone really wants to jump through these > hoops to get it done, let him do it. I think this will be a niche > application and, if at all, only used very seldom. > > And if we later find that someone is really being a thorn in our si

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Reverse-Engineering Maps and Share-Alike Licences

2009-03-08 Thread 80n
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > 80n wrote: > > Obviously you can create an image and license it as a Produced Work. > > Also fairly obviously you claim that a vector image (eg SVG) is a > Produced Work, > > even if it contains most of planet.xml in unmodified form.

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Reverse-Engineering Maps and Share-Alike Licences

2009-03-08 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, 80n wrote: > Obviously you can create an image and license it as a Produced Work. > Also fairly obviously you claim that a vector image (eg SVG) is a Produced > Work, > even if it contains most of planet.xml in unmodified form. Not sure here. You can of course produce a Derivative Database

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Reverse-Engineering Maps and Share-Alike Licences

2009-03-08 Thread 80n
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Dave Stubbs wrote: > 2009/3/8 Andy Allan : > > On 7 Mar 2009, at 23:56, OJ W wrote: > > > >> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Gervase Markham >> gm...@gerv.net> wrote: > >>> b) If people are reverse-engineering our stuff, they need a > >>> massive, sustained, con

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Reverse-Engineering Maps and Share-Alike Licences

2009-03-08 Thread Dave Stubbs
2009/3/8 Andy Allan : > On 7 Mar 2009, at 23:56, OJ W wrote: > >> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Gervase Markham > gm...@gerv.net> wrote: >>> b) If people are reverse-engineering our stuff,  they need a >>> massive, sustained, continuous Mechanical Turk effort >> >> unless they create SVG files t

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Reverse-Engineering Maps and Share-Alike Licences

2009-03-08 Thread Simon Ward
On Sun, Mar 08, 2009 at 01:23:44AM +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote: > I agree with both points, but I would like to try and be pragmatic: > Don't throw out the reverse engineering clause; just add a clause that > explicitly permits releasing Produced Works under a number of named > share-alike licens