Re: [License-discuss] Can OSI take stance that U.S. public domain is open source?

2014-05-04 Thread Henrik Ingo
The analoguous explanation for why cc0 didn't qualify is that it explicitly said you get rights a and b but not c, with c a necessary right to copy and use the software. It should be obvious that - even if you'd disagree wrt patents - at least for some values of c that is clearly not open source.

Re: [License-discuss] Can OSI take stance that U.S. public domain is open source?

2014-05-04 Thread John Cowan
Henrik Ingo scripsit: The analoguous explanation for why cc0 didn't qualify is that it explicitly said you get rights a and b but not c, with c a necessary right to copy and use the software. It should be obvious that - even if you'd disagree wrt patents - at least for some values of c that

Re: [License-discuss] Can OSI take stance that U.S. public domain is open source?

2014-05-04 Thread Henrik Ingo
On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 10:34 PM, Richard Fontana font...@sharpeleven.org wrote: On Sat, 3 May 2014 22:07:19 +0300 Henrik Ingo henrik.i...@avoinelama.fi wrote: Does the US government grant itself patents, Yes. and if so, what does it do with those patents? Many are licensed to the

Re: [License-discuss] Can OSI take stance that U.S. public domain is open source?

2014-05-04 Thread Karl Fogel
John Cowan co...@mercury.ccil.org writes: I continue to think that our CC0 decision was wrong insofar as it can be read as saying that the CC0 license is not an open-source (as opposed to OSI Certified) license. There may be reasons not to certify it, but not to deny that it is open source.

Re: [License-discuss] Can OSI take stance that U.S. public domain is open source?

2014-05-04 Thread Rick Moen
Quoting John Cowan (co...@mercury.ccil.org): [Appreciating and agreeing with what you say, FWIW, but I have one thing to add.] In the end, certification is just a convenience to the users: it says that a group of fairly knowledgeable people are willing to stand behind the cliam that each

Re: [License-discuss] Can OSI take stance that U.S. public domain is open source?

2014-05-04 Thread Henrik Ingo
Richard, I just wanted to call out a neat statistical trick you just made: On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 9:06 PM, Richard Fontana font...@sharpeleven.org wrote: On Sun, 04 May 2014 11:48:13 -0500 Karl Fogel kfo...@red-bean.com wrote: I don't know offhand the current count of OSI-approved licenses

Re: [License-discuss] Can OSI take stance that U.S. public domain is open source?

2014-05-04 Thread John Cowan
Henrik Ingo scripsit: Is the US governments exclusion of patents that explicit? The only thing that makes the U.S. Government different from any other actor in IP law is that it cannot (and therefore its employees acting in the scope of their employment cannot) acquire copyright on any works

Re: [License-discuss] Can OSI take stance that U.S. public domain is open source?

2014-05-04 Thread John Cowan
Simon Phipps scripsit: We did not decide against CC0. The discussion was certainly at a low point when Creative Commons withdrew it from the approval process, but that's what happened, not an OSI denial. Had they persisted, I believe OSI would have needed to face the issue of how licenses

[License-discuss] How licenses treat patents

2014-05-04 Thread Lawrence Rosen
Simon Phipps wrote in relation to CC0: ... Had they persisted, I believe OSI would have needed to face the issue of how licenses treat patents. There really aren't too many alternative ways for FOSS licenses to treat patents: * The FOSS license does not contain a patent

Re: [License-discuss] How licenses treat patents

2014-05-04 Thread John Cowan
Lawrence Rosen scripsit: * The FOSS license does not contain a patent license. The issue appears to be whether there is a difference for OSI purposes between licenses that withhold patent rights and those which are silent about them. My view is that there is not, but others disagree.