Great summary, a few notes inline.
> On Apr 22, 2020, at 21:50, ZmnSCPxj wrote:
>
> Good morning lists et al,
>
> Let me try to summarize things a little:
>
> * Suppose we have a forwarding payment A->B->C.
> * Suppose B does not want to maintain a mempool and is running in
> `blocksonly` mo
Good morning lists et al,
Let me try to summarize things a little:
* Suppose we have a forwarding payment A->B->C.
* Suppose B does not want to maintain a mempool and is running in `blocksonly`
mode to reduce operational costs.
* C triggers B somehow dropping the B<->C channel, such as by sendin
Hi everyone,
Sorry to just be getting to a response here. Hadn't noticed it till now.
*(Plug: If anyone or their organizations would like to assist in funding
the work described below for a group of developers, I've been working to
put resources together for funding the above for a few months now
Hi Nadav,
Thanks for the updates! Super cool to see this concept continue to evolve
and integrate new technologies as they pop up.
> I believe this would only require a few changes to existing nodes:
Rather than a "few changes", this would to date be the largest network-level
update undertaken t
On 4/22/20 7:27 PM, Olaoluwa Osuntokun wrote:
>
>> Indeed, that is what I’m suggesting
>
> Gotcha, if this is indeed what you're suggesting (all HTLC spends are now
> 2-of-2 multi-sig), then I think the modifications to the state machine I
> sketched out in an earlier email are required. An exa
> Indeed, that is what I’m suggesting
Gotcha, if this is indeed what you're suggesting (all HTLC spends are now
2-of-2 multi-sig), then I think the modifications to the state machine I
sketched out in an earlier email are required. An exact construction which
achieves the requirements of "you can'
> On Apr 22, 2020, at 16:13, Olaoluwa Osuntokun wrote:
>
> > Hmm, maybe the proposal wasn't clear. The idea isn't to add signatures to
> > braodcasted transactions, but instead to CPFP a maybe-broadcasted
> > transaction by sending a transaction which spends it and seeing if it is
> > accepted
> This seems like a somewhat unnecessary drive-by insult of a project you
> don't contribute to, but feel free to start with a concrete suggestion
> here :).
This wasn't intended as an insult at all. I'm simply saying if there's
concern about worst case eviction/replacement, optimizations likely e
Hi z,
Actually, the current anchors proposal already does this, since it enforces
a
CSV of 1 block before the HTLCs can be spent (the block after
confirmation). So
I think we already do this, meaning the malicious node is already forced to
use
an RBF-replaceable transaction.
-- Laolu
On Wed, Ap
Hi Z,
> It seems to me that, if my cached understanding that `<0>
> OP_CHECKSEQUENCEVERIFY` is sufficient to require RBF-flagging, then adding
> that to the hashlock branch (2 witness bytes, 0.5 weight) would be a
pretty
> low-weight mitigation against this attack.
I think this works...so they're
Hmm, that's an interesting suggestion, it definitely raises the bar for attack
execution rather significantly. Because lightning (and other second-layer
systems) already relies heavily on uncensored access to blockchain data, its
reasonable to extend the "if you don't have enough blocks, aggres
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 03:03:29PM -0400, Antoine Riard wrote:
> > In that case, would it be worth re-implementing something like a BIP61
> reject message but with an extension that returns the txids of any
> conflicts?
>
> That's an interesting idea, but an attacker can create a local conflict in
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:43:14PM -0400, Matt Corallo via Lightning-dev wrote:
> A lightning counterparty (C, who received the HTLC from B, who
> received it from A) today could, if B broadcasts the commitment
> transaction, spend an HTLC using the preimage with a low-fee,
> RBF-disabled transacti
On 4/22/20 12:12 AM, ZmnSCPxj wrote:
> Good morning Matt, and list,
>
>
>
>> RBF Pinning HTLC Transactions (aka "Oh, wait, I can steal funds, how,
>> now?")
>> =
>>
>> You'll note that in the discussion of RBF pinning we were pretty broad,
>> and that
A few replies inline.
On 4/22/20 12:13 AM, Olaoluwa Osuntokun wrote:
> Hi Matt,
>
>
>> While this is somewhat unintuitive, there are any number of good anti-DoS
>> reasons for this, eg:
>
> None of these really strikes me as "good" reasons for this limitation, which
> is at the root of this iss
Hello all,
I'd like to give an update on the current state of thinking and coding
surrounding replacing Hash-TimeLock Contracts (HTLCs) with Point-TimeLock
Contracts (PTLCs) (aka Payment Hashes -> Payment Points) in hopes of
sparking interest, discussion, development, etc.
We Want Payment Points
On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 09:13:34PM -0700, Olaoluwa Osuntokun wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:43:14PM -0400, Matt Corallo via Lightning-dev
> wrote:
> > While this is somewhat unintuitive, there are any number of good anti-DoS
> > reasons for this, eg:
>
> None of these really strikes me as "g
Hi Antoine and list,
Thanks for raising this. There's one step I'd like to understand further:
* Mallory can broadcast its Pinning Preimage Tx on offered HTLC #2 output
> on Alice's transaction,
> feerate is maliciously chosen to get in network mempools but never to
> confirm. Absolute fee must
>
Personally, I would have wait a bit before to go public on this, like
letting some implementations
increasing their CLTV deltas, but anyway, it's here now.
Mempool-pinning attacks were already discussed on this list [0], but what
we found is you
can _reverse_ the scenario, where it's not the malic
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