Re: [Lightning-dev] [bitcoin-dev] Scaling Lightning With Simple Covenants

2023-09-18 Thread ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev
Good morning John, > On the other hand, if the consensus rules are changed to allow even simple > covenants, this scaling bottleneck is eliminated. > The key observation is that with covenants, a casual user can co-own an > off-chain Lightning channel without having to sign all (or any) of the

Re: [Lightning-dev] [bitcoin-dev] Scaling Lightning With Simple Covenants

2023-09-18 Thread Erik Aronesty
> > replacing CTV usage with Musig2 > > this changes the trust model to a federated one vs trustless and also increases the on-chain footprint of failure, correct? > ___ Lightning-dev mailing list Lightning-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org

Re: [Lightning-dev] [bitcoin-dev] Scaling Lightning With Simple Covenants

2023-09-18 Thread jlspc via Lightning-dev
Hi Antoine, Thanks for your note. Responses are in-line below: > Hi John, > Thanks for the proposal, few feedback after a first look. > If Bitcoin and Lightning are to become widely-used, they will have to > be adopted by casual users who want to send and receive bitcoin, but who > do not

Re: [Lightning-dev] [bitcoin-dev] Scaling Lightning With Simple Covenants

2023-09-18 Thread jlspc via Lightning-dev
Hi Rusty, > I've read the start of the paper on my vacation, and am still > digesting it. But even so far, it presents some delightful > possibilities. Great! > As with some other proposals, it's worth noting that the cost of > enforcement is dramatically increased. It's no longer one

Re: [Lightning-dev] Scaling Lightning With Simple Covenants

2023-09-18 Thread jlspc via Lightning-dev
Hi aj, I completely agree with your observation that there's an important trust/safety vs. capital-efficiency tradeoff, and I almost completely agree with your analysis. > (There are probably ways around this with additional complexity: eg, > you could peer with a dedicated node, and have