> What should the behavior of the *last* one be here?
No beams over the rest.
Werner
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> b) have *no* beamlets at all and let the subdivision be calculated
>as usual (fourth attachment)
This is what I prefer.
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> Reading people's ideas about those things make them appear like
> something we would be better without. They only lead to confusion.
+1
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> Whenever you have variables pointing to indexed parts or to
> consecutive snippets you may want to use variables like
>
> violin1 =
> violin2 =
>
> or
>
> flute_phrase01 =
> flute_phrase02 =
>
> or similar. This is expressive as LilyPond code per se, and would
> be accessible for scripting,
> When I create an SVG file with LilyPond and upload it to Wikimedia
> Commons, it renders as a blank image (try uploading
> Tristan.preview.svg at https://tools.wmflabs.org/svgcheck/). Can
> anyone help me figure out how to fix this?
For me it worked without problems uploading to German
> Well, System::post_processing ends by creating the stencils of a
> system in reverse order. That's probably not helping.
A bug?
Werner
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> Werner, any suggestions for _not_ using a tie in that manner?
For me, a tie lengthens a time value of a given pitch; it has no other
meaning.
Werner
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> I don't really agree with your characterization of Scheme as a
> "quite specialised area" of LilyPond: it's a rather integral part of
> its workings and interfaces, quite different from the role, say, Lua
> plays in LuaTeX. So I don't see much of a point in a separate
> mailing list.
+1
>> The notorious delay with which many posts arrive on this list gets
>> annoying… At times there is no problem, but these days it’s really
>> bad. Is there anything we could do?
>
> Or, _I_ could do, if it were a problem on my side?
In case of such problems you should look at
> Or maybe Gratipay (https://gratipay.com/) (formerly known as
> “gittip") which is based on continuous weekly payments – ongoing
> contributions for ongoing work – rather than payment per creation.
This is nice! However, it is US-based, which is less than optimal for
EU citizens...
>>> How do people feel about choosing one of the following variations of
>>> \- and \= (code compiles and does the expected thing even in 2.18):
>>
>> I think I prefer \=, but I would be happy with either.
+1 for `\=', since `@' looks a bit clumsy.
Werner
> I just said that because often Elaine Gould is used as kind of a bible
> and as normative reference, whereas a notable part of her statements
> are personal suggestions and a matter of style or preference. She’s
> just the only one who has made a comprehensive publication on the
> topic (with
> I found this fascinating:
>
> http://homes.soic.indiana.edu/donbyrd/InterestingMusicNotation.html
Indeed! Gorgeous stuff :-)
Werner
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In a review on languages in the Communications of the ACM a long
time ago, each language was described by a caption and a short
paragraph. Sample captions:
APL : I can read hieroglyphs too.
Prolog : If Prolog is the answer, then what was the question?
LOL! Can you give a
I am adding an attachment that includes this flat sign with number
2 in its key signature.
There's also a sharp sign with number `3'...
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In something like \italic { Les Meslanges }, the space is actually
from the normal font since it translates to { \italic Les \italic
Meslanges }.
In other words, people should use strings in double quotes in case
spaces are of importance, cf.
\markup { \italic { | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
I use a solution as below.
This is great! Thanks.
1. Any thought about submitting a patch for inclusion in the main
distro?
No time currently, sorry.
2. Maybe along with Mike Solomon’s \absFontSize function (which has
proven invaluable to me): [...]
Nice! Maybe someone can
Hello Karol!
I was thinking of changing side bearings only.
I looked into *.mf files of Feta and noticed that there is some
kerning data applied to number glyphs. So I would:
1) remove kerning
2) set the same glyph width for all numbers.
Any progress?
And I wonder how time signatures
I use a solution as below.
Oops! Here the complete e-mail.
Werner
==
#(define-public (pt-to-ss size)
Convert from points to staff space units.
;; The value `output-scale' gives the size (in mm) of the staff
Is there any way to set baseline-skip in absolute measurements?
I use a solution as below.
Werner
==
#(define-public (pt-to-ss size)
Convert from points to staff space units.
;; The value `output-scale' gives the
Recently I had to use meter 11/16 and noticed that Feta numerals are
not monospaced - they are not aligned vertically. I would consider
modifying Feta number glyphs so that each of them have the same
width. Any thoughts on this?
Basically, I don't object. Slightly stretching or squeezing
I am just thinking out aloud that maybe fixing the Fedora issue my
be my way of starting to contribute to the development, and the
question arose while reflecting whether working in this area is a
worthwhile effort.
It's certainly worth the trouble! It seems that the problem is
specific to
This is what I meant with `defending your code'. And sometimes it
simply happens that there is no concensus.
I hope you simply didn't read Janek's comment carefully enough. The
main point in his last sentence is not about the alternative but
about an attitude of rejecting suggestions
The behaviour that discouraged me from working on LilyPond for some
time was not obviously unacceptable (i.e. it wasn't some ad hominem
attack, nor anything else unanimously condemned by others). Rather,
it was the general attitude of some people who sometimes seem to
oppose changes only
However, I think that the intermediate file should be temporary by
mkstemp etc. If lilypond uses mkstemp generated temporary file,
this ghostscript problem will not occur.
+1
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for example create a file lines.ly with a minimal content
\version 2.19.19
{c' d' e' f'}
and compile ...
Nice! I wasn't aware that lilypond can put *that* much information
into four note symbols :-)
Please submit a bug report.
Werner
Negative values will flip or mirror the stencil without changing
its origin; this may result in collisions unless the scaled stencil
is realigned
I’ll have to give this a try.
Would it be worth defining “flip” functions that call
ly:stencil-scale with negative, non-scaling, numbers
In this case, as an intermediate file example.ps is used. This is
a problem if a file named example.ps already exists in my working
directory. This file is brutally overwritten and deleted when I
run lilypond without any warning or option to cancel, nor is a
backup copy of the old file
If the intermediate file would be given a unique, not already
existing, temporary filename, not only this issue would be solved
but also the original lines.ly - lines.ps - lines.pdf issue that
started this thread would not be a problem anymore.
I'm not a (LilyPond) developer but does it
Lily should do PDF. Period.
Right. However, noone is going to implement this right now, so we
have to follow the second-best route, this is, making the creation of
the intermediate PS file work correctly.
Werner
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Nice! I wasn't aware that lilypond can put *that* much information
into four note symbols :-)
I’m feeling left out here, on my Mac!
All I get is the first four notes of a C major scale!!
For the curious people, here's `lines.pdf' if ghostscript erronously
processes its own `lines.ps' demo
David Paul: I created jianpu-test_1.ly for testing jianpu9.lyThe
result is self explaining. There is a difference in coding c''8 8
vs c''8 c''Lyric treat - 0 as notes
Looking at this, I see a fundamental error. The lilypond output has
beams in reversed order, for example
0.
Thank you very much for the update.
Indeed, it starts looking good :-) Congrats.
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Is there a function to retrieve the font name from a given file
name? It would be a viable approach if I could compare the result
of that request with the original font name.
For TTFs and TTCs (either with TrueType outlines or embedded CFFs) you
can use `ly:ttf-ps-name'.
Looking into
I think I have found something. [...]
Looks promising! Thanks for working on that. Note that I can help
with FreeType details, but not with FontConfig issues. However, the
maintainers on fontconfig's e-mail list are very responsive in case
you have difficulties.
Werner
PS: I suggest
On my openSuSE GNU/Linux box, I get different results.
Given font name: Emmentaler-13
Determined font file: /usr/share/fonts/TTF/mplus-1c-medium.ttf
Actual font in that file: mplus-1c-medium
Given font is present: #f
Given font name: Emmentaler-13
Determined font file:
What is the result of ly:ttf-ps-name when you pass it the full path
to a real emmentaler file (I can't see where they are on your
system of course)?
#(display
(ly:font-config-get-font-file
/home/harm/lilydevel/usr/share/lilypond/current/fonts/otf/emmentaler-13.otf))
family Alegreya
Alegreya:style=Regular
snip/
family DejaVu Sans
DejaVu Sans:style=Book
snip/
family Emmentaler-11
Emmentaler\-11:style=11
[...]
Hmm...
No `hmm' here :-) Lilypond adds its own font directories to the list
of directories searched by fontconfig.
Werner
Sometimes people are scared by a maybe too rough tone, though.
It *is* a problem, and not only about code quality. More than once
I abandoned a patch before the quality of the code was even
considered but because of fruitless discussions about use cases,
when for example using LilyPond to
Subscribing to this e-mail list is overwhelming me with e-mail posts
that are beyond me and outside of my scope of interest. Is it
possible to throttle the e-mail so I don't receive 70 e-mails a day?
You should activate `thread view' in your e-mail reader. Then you can
simply ignore all
The current workaround, of course, is to use \tag around the
section(s) in question. In particular, that method [relatively]
easily solves “hide these 16 measures” types of situations (like my
Example #2) and “depending on the version/edition, use either THIS
or THIS” (like my Example #1).
Ok, the problem was that your music file was for LilyPond 2.19 and
jianpu3.ly only works with 2.18.
Have you proposed adding this to LilyPond? It seems like this would
be a promising thing to add to the core, since it's another standard
notation.
But it's still *far* away from the look of
Don't do it. Redefining standard commands just to save typing is a
terrible idea.
It depends. Especially \tuplet is awfully long, and it makes scores
with a lot of triplets extremely hard to read.
Apropos outsmarting tools: with LilyPond source code in particular,
you risk doing that to
Please have a look at the `divisi-staves.ly' regression test, which
is the solution to
https://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3518
[Actually, this file contains undocumented features that deserves
documentation due to its importance for orchestral music...]
I want a
I've just found out that adding
\override NoteColumn.ignore-collision = ##t
does exactly the right thing, at least for the given example. I
guess that this is just a work-around, since no real merging does
happen...
...nd a much simpler solution is as follows, just for reference.
assume that the Savane installation on Savannah will eventuall
move to FusionForge).
There are no such plans at present.
Hmm. How does the development of Savannah's bug tracking system work,
then?
I would be glad if we could use Savannah
Ok, I'll look into the
Looks like google can export all issue data to a JSON file, so
that's encouraging:
http://code.google.com/p/support-tools/wiki/IssueExporterTool
Indeed!
Just thinking out loud in terms of images, I wonder if GNU
MediaGoblin might help?
http://mediagoblin.org/
Well, we need a dedicated
How many of those issues are the sort that affect users every second
Tuesday after a a blue moon versus critical bugs?
I don't understand what you are trying to ask. Please have a look at
https://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/list
to see how we are collecting reports. Note that we
However, one extremely important feature is sorely missing from
Savannah's bug tracker: the ability to directly display images,
[...] Are there plans to implement image support?
Realistically, no.
Hmm. Perhaps it's time to open an issue in FusionForge (at least I
assume that the Savane
Patches are always welcomed, but I do not know if anyone is
interested in hacking on the current php code to add such a
feature.
Right, I'm not exactly interested, but if that single feature
makes the difference between lilypond moving to savannah or
somewhere, I'd at least
Issues:
Savannah supports web-based 'trackers' (for bugs, supports, tasks,
etc.), for example:
https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/?group=lwip
and also using a DebBugs server, for example:
http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?package=emacs
However, one extremely important feature is
Any takers?
Werner
==
Please have a look at the `divisi-staves.ly' regression test, which is
the solution to
https://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3518
[Actually, this file contains undocumented
Please have a look at the `divisi-staves.ly' regression test, which is
the solution to
https://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3518
[Actually, this file contains undocumented features that deserves
documentation due to its importance for orchestral music...]
I want a variation of
You may notice that, after almost 6 months, I've just uploaded a new
version of LilyPond.
Congrats to you and Masamichi-san for your hard work to make this
important release possible!
Werner
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There's *lots* of short music that would benefit greatly from
beautiful typesetting.
Short music, per se, isn't the problem.
Well, it is in case it leads to very tight typesetting. The
out-of-the-box settings of LilyPond aren't suited to that.
Have a look at code issues 2141 to 2145.
If it's convenient, have a look at the attached patch/sketch. It
adds a property, minimum-length-left-broken, which lets you adjust
broken bits that start a line.
Excellent! What an improvement with just a few lines of code!
Thanks a lot.
Now that the change is in the repository, I've
In bar 2 you can see the effect of `minimum-length-after-break'.
You mean bar 4--bar 2 is the default.
Of course. Typo.
Any chance to fix this? BTW, if you compare bar 2 with bar 6, you
see exactly the opposite effect w.r.t. the default tie length: with
a time signature the tie looks
It's probably a language thing...
Indeed. I should have looked up the phrase before writing. Sorry.
The link you included is very interesting - although I won't hold my
breath, because I see that the discussion has been going on for 4½
years so far.
The very issue is that we only have
It's a shame that Lilypond does not (so far as I know) have any way
to
(a) associate one mark with another for positioning purposes
(b) associate dynamics with two staves, and use some sensible
algorithm for vertically spacing the dynamics between the two
staves and their contents.
So do I understand you correctly, that if a font contains a ligature
for a given sequence of characters, then Lilypond will always
typeset that character sequence using the ligature,
It is more complicated than that. Here is the ideal model for
OpenType ligature handling.
1. Get the
LilyPond used to do ligatures correctly in 2.16.2 (see image). In
2.18.2 and 2.19 versions, the ligatures are broken. Why?
Unfortunately, this is currently beyond our control. What you see is
the default rendering with the pango library. Right now, lilypond
lacks a font interface to control
Unfortunately, this is currently beyond our control. What you see
is the default rendering with the pango library. Right now,
lilypond lacks a font interface to control OpenType features.
And why did it work before?
I don't know.
Because the old pango library did it differently?
[Reviving an old thread]
From: Werner LEMBERG w...@gnu.org
Subject: Re: absolute font size issues
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 06:25:20 +0100 (CET)
D'oh. A closer look into the sources of my old project dates 2011,
and I did not use \abs-... but \...-mm instead and gave all
dimensions
Why not make it possible to give different values of minimum-length
right when you do the basic override? Perhaps minimum-length could
be a pair, one number giving the non-broken value, another giving
the broken. Or--less intrusive--there could be a property alongside
it which acted on a
In case it is easy to implement a `minimum-length-broken' property,
please proceed! It would magically improve *a lot* of scores, I
guess.
If it's convenient, have a look at the attached patch/sketch. It
adds a property, minimum-length-left-broken, which lets you adjust
broken bits that
I've found no way to make it work.
OK, thanks for trying.
Why not tackle the NoteColumn instead?
\version 2.19.15
\paper {
indent = 0
line-width = 50\mm
ragged-right = #f
}
{
c''1 ~ \break
\once \override Score.NoteColumn.X-offset = 2 %% or whatever
However, this has no effect. I guess this is because because the
`after-line-breaking' callback is invoked too late in the
formatting process.
Yes, it appears that 'minimum-length is consulted before line
breaking happens, in the callback for ly:spanner::set-spacing-rods
(in
Folks,
I'm trying to work around an old problem of broken ties in tightly
setted music: They can degenerate to a dot, having no horizontal
extensions anymore. Following the example in section `Difficult
tweaks' of the notation reference (with slight changes to change the
property for all
They can degenerate to a dot, having no horizontal extensions
anymore.
extensions - extent
Werner
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I can't believe my eyes, it's beautiful!
Indeed! Well done, Pierre. However, I have one minor nitpick: For my
taste the stems are too long in general. I guess this is something
that can be easily adjusted in case other people think the same.
Werner
I’m looking for a good name for a rest style that is like the
default except for using a quarter rest shaped like a mirrored Z.
I’ve seen examples in 19th-C. Italian opera and 20th-C. American
hymnals, so names based on time, place, publisher, or genre do not
fit very well. Although, I also
Consider the following snippet.
\relative c' {
f4 f f f |
f4 f f f |
f4 f f f |
f4 f f f |
\once \override TextSpanner.bound-details.left.text = rit.
\once \override TextSpanner.bound-details.right.text = a tempo
f4\startTextSpan f f f\stopTextSpan
f4 f f f |
f4
\once \override TextSpanner.bound-details.right.attach-dir = #-6
Thanks. However, this solution fails twice.
1. The vertical position of the `a tempo' must not be shifted
horizontally relative to the music. In the example, the `a
tempo' should exactly start at the last quarter
Have a look at these two snippets.
% slur.ly
\relative c'
{ c'8( b) } \\
{ e,4 }
% slur-beam.ly
\relative c'
{ c'8[( b]) } \\
{ e,4 }
% staccato-slur.ly
\relative c'
{ c'8( b-.) } \\
{ e,4 }
% staccato-slur-beam.ly
That's effectively what I'm doing. I'm changing the X-offset
callback because it's only there that the property
toward-stem-shift is read (see scm/output-lib.scm). The trick is
allowing two different concurrent values for toward-stem-shift: 1.0
for when the staccato is alone, 0.0 when
BTW, the above output also shows the directories searched by
fontconfig.
Oops. I mean that
lilypond -dshow-available-fonts 21 | less
also shows the directories searched by fontconfig.
Werner
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The example below does not work
To my knowledge, Lilypond has difficulty — i.e., fails completely —
with older Mac OS True Type (.ttf) fonts, and Baghdad is one of
those [at least on my machine].
Being an old Mac OS TTF per se is not a problem. A font must have a
Unicode cmap so that
I dare say there is a prettier and more concise way of doing this,
but at least I now have something that works!
What about the following?
#(define-public (pt-to-ss size)
Convert from points to staff space units.
;; The value `output-scale' gives the size (in mm) of the staff
;;
The code
\version “2.19.15
\markup \fontsize #12 “й
gives
[a diacritic shifted to the right]
[n.b., The diacritical mark should be centred directly above the glyph.]
Is that expected, or is this a bug?
In either case, is there a suggested workaround?
For me it works just
1) Is it clear that nobody would need Postscript output itself,
e.g. to produce something different than PDF?
PDF can be converted back to PS easily.
2) Is that a feasible goal?
Well, it would be a good solution. However, we need a PDF creation
library, I guess...
Werner
Vertical spacing can get tricky, so here's a helpful visual guide:
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/attachment/164161/0/vertical-spacing-paper-variables.pdf
Very nice! Do we have a comparable image in the lilypond
documentation already?
Note that in git the command `annotate-spacing'
Now I thought a bit and added -dSubsetFonts=false to the gs
parameter list in backend-library.scm. I also changed
lilyponddefs.ps to include white-on-white print commands for all the
emmentaler glyphs used in the four examples (hint: grep, sed, sort
uniq make it easy to get a list of
What defines the distance between a time signature and the next note
*with an accidental* (in addition to the TimeSignatures
`extra-spacing-width')? I would expect that the `first-note' (or
`next-note', if set) element of a TimeSignature's `space-alist'
handles this case also, but this
How can I force lilypond to include the full emmentaler-design-size
font instead of only a subset?
LilyPond itself only produces PS files, *always* embedding complete
fonts, AFAIK. Thus ghostscript's `-dSubsetFonts=false' option should
work for Emmentaler also. Have you actually checked that
[Resending to lilypond-user, since the issue might be interesting to
more people...]
What defines the distance between a time signature and the next note
*with an accidental* (in addition to the TimeSignatures
`extra-spacing-width')? I would expect that the `first-note' (or
`next-note', if
From: Marc Hohl m...@hohlart.de
Subject: Re: absolute font size issues
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 20:09:07 +0100
Am 12.11.2014 um 13:35 schrieb Werner LEMBERG:
Well, I was about to answer, but somehow ...
:-)
I defined some \abs-... markup commands myself
Ha! Where are they? I guess
Well, I was about to answer, but somehow ...
:-)
I defined some \abs-... markup commands myself
Ha! Where are they? I guess this would have saved me many hours of
wading through obscure LilyPond Scheme code...
and wondered if it would be feasible to implement a switch –
something like
I looked up the source code, but I couldn't find the definition of
`\staff-space'...
I’m not sure what ‘\staff-space’ is. I know the meaning of
‘staff-space’ (without the slash), though. Is that what you meant?
No, I mean `\staff-space', e.g.
line-width = 50\staff-space
as documented
It seems suspicious. What happens is that in paper-defaults-init.ly,
there is a line:
%% ugh. hard coded?
#(layout-set-absolute-staff-size (* 20.0 pt))
The comment says it all :-) Not that I am not guilty of hardcoding…
no stones are thrown…
What's the problem?
. What's the unit of \abs-fontsize's `SIZE' parameter?
Typographical Points, i.e. 72.27pt = 1 inch? The documentation
lacks this.
After investigations I now know that the unit of `SIZE' is indeed
Typographical Points. This *must* be mentioned right there, since it
otherwise
\markup { \abs-fontsize #200 {
\abs-baseline-skip #250 {
\column { A A } } } }
An alternative to `\abs-baseline-skip' is a scaling function
`pt-to-staff-space', see below. While being more versatile, it's
probably more awkward to use...
Werner
I looked up the source code, but I couldn't find the definition of
`\staff-space'...
BTW, there isn't an index entry for it.
Werner
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Folks,
to get a consistent global layout of a title, it seems to me that the
best solution is to use absolute font-size values so that
`set-global-staff-size' doesn't influence the layout. However, there
are some issues.
. What's the unit of \abs-fontsize's `SIZE' parameter?
I tried to use unicode fonts for the lyrics. While the fonts show
perfectly well in the input file, the output is not correct. Is
there a workaround?
If the bottom one is correct then it is rendering correctly on
Ubuntu 14.04, lilypond 2.19.3.
... This means we are again bitten by the
If it works on Linux, I may have a way to get Linux on the windows
PC using Virtual Box. On the other hand I am using version 2.18.2 -
perhaps I should try 2.19.5 first.
I fear that 2.19.5 will fail on Windows as 2.18.2 does.
Werner
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[about lilypond lyrics in Kannada script]
I tried to use unicode fonts for the lyrics. While the fonts show
perfectly well in the input file, the output is not correct. Is
there a workaround?
This depends on
(a) whether the used Pango library version has support for Kannada,
and
The snippet portrayed in the image is from a piece called
Nálada. You probably noticed it as an example score I've used to
showcase some other other fonts. I call this font Improviso.
In case it's a font intended for songbooks, you might call it
`Lalala' :-)
Werner
It boils down to this: if I use greek letters in a \markup, the
corresponding latin character (alpha - a, gamma - g, etc.) is
rendered differently – it appears not smooth, but more pixelated.
Please see the attached screenshot from Okular in which the greek α,
χ and ε have an influence on a,
Sorry for the late reply.
This is not correct. The most important part, namely to write a
small test program for Pango that should be run on Windows and/or
64bit GNU/Linux platforms, is *not* done.
I have a couple of development environments for Windows: a gcc-based
one, which I've used
My guess, based admittedly on partial evidence, is that these are in
fact intended as indications of a seventh chord, not some sort of
Tasto Solo indication or ... After all, a player of the period would
have had as much difficulty distinguishing that symbol from a 7 as
we have after
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