Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages [was: Re: Appreciation / Financial support]

2012-06-11 Thread Ramana Kumar
> Can anyone recommend a book or website for learning Scheme as it > currently exists in Lilypond? So that I won’t start using deprecated > features or whatever. I’m fluent in Lua (which I like a lot). I found Kent Dybvig's book to be useful and readable: http://scheme.com/tspl4/. "Scheme as it c

Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages [was: Re: Appreciation / Financial support]

2012-06-10 Thread Henning Hraban Ramm
Am 2012-06-10 um 11:58 schrieb David Kastrup: Henning Hraban Ramm writes: Please. Stop. This discussion is going nowhere. And David can use his badly-paid time better for enhancing LilyPond than for discussing ideal worlds that never will happen. The architecture of LilyPond needs work to

Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages [was: Re: Appreciation / Financial support]

2012-06-10 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 10/06/12 08:14, David Kastrup wrote: The discussion is not useful. It distracts from work needing to get done, without offering perspectives that are actually feasible since they are neither thought through nor have the resources for tackling them _if_ they made sense and were planned out.

Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages [was: Re: Appreciation / Financial support]

2012-06-10 Thread David Kastrup
Henning Hraban Ramm writes: > Please. Stop. > > This discussion is going nowhere. > And David can use his badly-paid time better for enhancing LilyPond > than for discussing ideal worlds that never will happen. Actually, I am not as much discussing ideal worlds rather than the misconception that

Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages [was: Re: Appreciation / Financial support]

2012-06-10 Thread Henning Hraban Ramm
Please. Stop. This discussion is going nowhere. And David can use his badly-paid time better for enhancing LilyPond than for discussing ideal worlds that never will happen. Whoever believes to know better than our currently most active programmer should come up with some useful code. Gr

Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages [was: Re: Appreciation / Financial support]

2012-06-10 Thread David Kastrup
Joseph Rushton Wakeling writes: > On 07/06/12 05:24, David Kastrup wrote: >> You picked a _Scheme_ function, not a music function. That does not, I >> repeat _not_ at all show how you embed this thing into your LilyPond >> code, and we were talking about using D as an _extension_ language of >>

Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages [was: Re: Appreciation / Financial support]

2012-06-09 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 07/06/12 05:24, David Kastrup wrote: You picked a _Scheme_ function, not a music function. That does not, I repeat _not_ at all show how you embed this thing into your LilyPond code, and we were talking about using D as an _extension_ language of LilyPond, not about its usefulness as a genera

Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages [was: Re: Appreciation / Financial support]

2012-06-07 Thread Vaughan McAlley
On 8 June 2012 07:44, Matthew Collett wrote: > SICP does for computer programming what Linderholm's classic 'Mathematics > Made Difficult' does for arithmetic -- except that in this case the authors > are entirely serious. > It didn’t seem too scary to me, or at least the start of it... As far

Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages [was: Re: Appreciation / Financial support]

2012-06-07 Thread Matthew Collett
On 8/06/2012, at 1:54 am, Tim McNamara wrote: > The first few chapters of SICP would probably be very helpful. > > http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-10.html SICP does for computer programming what Linderholm's classic 'Mathematics Made Difficult' does for arithmetic -- except

Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages [was: Re: Appreciation / Financial support]

2012-06-07 Thread David Kastrup
Joseph Rushton Wakeling writes: > On 07/06/12 17:31, David Kastrup wrote: >> I think that a larger barrier is actually the use of features like >> modules in a non-documented and non-obvious way. > > Can you explain this in greater detail? Would be useful to understand > this better before reply

Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages [was: Re: Appreciation / Financial support]

2012-06-07 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 07/06/12 17:31, David Kastrup wrote: I think that a larger barrier is actually the use of features like modules in a non-documented and non-obvious way. Can you explain this in greater detail? Would be useful to understand this better before replying to your earlier, longer message on the

Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages [was: Re: Appreciation / Financial support]

2012-06-07 Thread David Kastrup
Joseph Rushton Wakeling writes: > Well, it's that unfamiliarity that I'm talking about, really. My > point isn't that Scheme is bad in itself but that using it means that > virtually _everyone_ wanting to script or work on LilyPond has to > learn a new language, syntax and set of programming par

Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages [was: Re: Appreciation / Financial support]

2012-06-07 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 07/06/12 14:54, Tim McNamara wrote: Hmm. The way you wrote that, it appears that the fault is not with Scheme but the with one's unfamiliarity with Scheme. This is certainly *my* problem with understanding the Scheme-based extensions in Lilypond. And yet when I look at them I can intuit

Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages [was: Re: Appreciation / Financial support]

2012-06-07 Thread Tim McNamara
On Jun 6, 2012, at 6:22 PM, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote: > > On 05/06/12 08:53, David Kastrup wrote: >> I would doubt that this would have been the fault of Scheme. More >> likely a problem of the Scheme/LilyPond interface choices, but those >> choices don't go away when replacing Scheme. > >

Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages [was: Re: Appreciation / Financial support]

2012-06-06 Thread David Kastrup
David Kastrup writes: > So please, try again. This time picking something that actually > solves a task in LilyPond. > > Something like > Documentation/snippets/adding-extra-fingering-with-scheme.ly (which > actually does a ridiculous amount using Scheme rather than #{...#} but > let's just assu

Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages [was: Re: Appreciation / Financial support]

2012-06-06 Thread David Kastrup
Joseph Rushton Wakeling writes: > Scheme (and all other LISP dialects), Haskell and so on have a starkly > different notational style and set of programming paradigms that make > them difficult to adapt to from current mainstream programming > approaches. That puts a barrier in the way of lots o

Scheme syntax vs. other languages [was: Re: Appreciation / Financial support]

2012-06-06 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 05/06/12 08:53, David Kastrup wrote: I would doubt that this would have been the fault of Scheme. More likely a problem of the Scheme/LilyPond interface choices, but those choices don't go away when replacing Scheme. No, it was the fault of the unfamiliar Scheme syntax. A colleague used to