On 21 July 2010 22:18, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> Btw. sometimes I do fail too, so I don't insist that I'm not mistaken,
> to the contrary, it would be a win for me too, if I should fail with my
> opinion.
Basically, just as long as you post twenty thousand emails to every
goddamn linux audio related
Ralf Mardorf wrote:
People today aren't able to do a good stereo or mono mix, e.g. because
of the loudness war, but they are thinking of doing 3D mixes.
I'm unable to follow this strange evolution.
I did have a bit of mistrust in 3D (although with less extreme feelings
than yours), and espe
On 2010.07.22. 1:30, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 10:07:10PM +0200, JohnLM wrote:
What's the thing about far and near fields?
The rule pressure = 1 / distance is true only for
theoretical point sources, and for real sources if the
distance is much larger than the siz
Excerpts from Philipp Überbacher's message of 2010-07-22 03:16:00 +0200:
> Excerpts from fons's message of 2010-07-22 02:24:04 +0200:
> > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 01:05:01AM +0200, Philipp Überbacher wrote:
> >
> > > I think the word loudness is a problem here. Afaik it usually refers to
> > > how
Hi, last night i finally managed to try jackd+alsa_in and yes, it works!
I used an intermittent beep as a test signal. One thing i've noticed, is
that the master stream is about 450-500 frames early in respect to the
slave streams, while the gap among the 3 slave streams is within 35-40
frames. I'l
On Wed, 2010-07-21 at 17:45 -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
> if that won't work for you, then perhaps you might want to visit any
> of the theaters outfitted by these guys:
> http://www.iosono-sound.com/references/installations/
The nearest to Oberhausen is http://www.odysseum.de/, unfortunately it's
ex
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 7:44 AM, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
> The picture to the quote „The best listening position is where I sit in
> a live performance. With IOSONO you can put the entire audience in my
> lap.“ Herbie Hancock, doesn't look like 5.1 or something similar:
> http://www.iosono-sound.com/c
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 6:39 AM, rom wrote:
> i'll see if i can create some documentation to make that
> "alsa_in/alsa_out" tools less ignored, instead of releasing a new
> software. Obviously, with all the proper disclaimers stating that it's
> not a substitute for a real multitrack ;-)
well, t
On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 01:04 +0200, Arnold Krille wrote:
> We are not talking about 5.1 or 7.1 here. These suck big time.
>
> We are talking about ambisonics vs. binaurals vs. simple stereo here!
Ok, I noticed this.
Fon's AmbDec is the player for the files from
http://www.ambisonia.com/?!
I gues
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 11:38 PM, Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
> Oh yeah, Fons is wonderful and never makes a fool of himself. His shit
> smells sweet too! ;-P
this was completely pointless. and offensive. and rude.
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Hi,
On Thursday 22 July 2010 14:01:36 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 01:04 +0200, Arnold Krille wrote:
> > We are not talking about 5.1 or 7.1 here. These suck big time.
> > We are talking about ambisonics vs. binaurals vs. simple stereo here!
> Ok, I noticed this.
> Fon's AmbDec is t
On 07/22/2010 05:31 AM, Philipp Überbacher wrote:
> Excerpts from Philipp Überbacher's message of 2010-07-22 03:16:00 +0200:
>
> > Excerpts from fons's message of 2010-07-22 02:24:04 +0200:
> > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 01:05:01AM +0200, Philipp Überbacher wrote:
> > >
> > > > I think the word loud
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 08:11:21AM -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 11:38 PM, Patrick Shirkey
> wrote:
>
> > Oh yeah, Fons is wonderful and never makes a fool of himself. His shit
> > smells sweet too! ;-P
>
> this was completely pointless. and offensive. and rude.
It depends
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 01:38:22PM +1000, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
> A giant Microphone and sound system shall also be erected in his
> honour and we shall sing in his name on imporatnt dates like when
> sent his first email and farted in melody ;-P
Too much. just my birthday will do, it's the fir
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Paul Davis wrote:
> you don't ned anything fancy to listen to B-format
> recordings, and one of the major reasons for that is fons' open source
> decoder that will allow you to listen to them with any jack-enabled
> audio player and your existing equipment.
Quest
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Chris Cannam
wrote:
> Question that just occurred to me. I'm very ignorant about spatial
> audio, and although I'm sure several of my colleagues could tell me
> this, I thought it might be sort of on-topic here. Is it possible, or
> easy, or sensible, or worthwh
On Thursday 22 July 2010 16:29:01 Chris Cannam wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Paul Davis
wrote:
> > you don't ned anything fancy to listen to B-format
> > recordings, and one of the major reasons for that is fons' open source
> > decoder that will allow you to listen to them with any
Excerpts from lieven moors's message of 2010-07-22 15:20:48 +0200:
> On 07/22/2010 05:31 AM, Philipp Überbacher wrote:
> > Excerpts from Philipp Überbacher's message of 2010-07-22 03:16:00 +0200:
> >
> > > Excerpts from fons's message of 2010-07-22 02:24:04 +0200:
> > > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 01
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 10:35:15AM -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Chris Cannam
> wrote:
> > Question that just occurred to me. I'm very ignorant about spatial
> > audio, and although I'm sure several of my colleagues could tell me
> > this, I thought it might be sor
On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 14:01 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 01:04 +0200, Arnold Krille wrote:
> > We are not talking about 5.1 or 7.1 here. These suck big time.
> >
> > We are talking about ambisonics vs. binaurals vs. simple stereo here!
>
> Ok, I noticed this.
>
> Fon's AmbD
On Thursday, July 22, 2010 01:07:57 pm f...@kokkinizita.net did opine:
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 10:35:15AM -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Chris Cannam
> >
> > wrote:
> > > Question that just occurred to me. I'm very ignorant about spatial
> > > audio, and althou
On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 10:52 -0700, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 14:01 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 01:04 +0200, Arnold Krille wrote:
> > > We are not talking about 5.1 or 7.1 here. These suck big time.
> > >
> > > We are talking about ambisonics vs.
On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 14:15 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday, July 22, 2010 01:07:57 pm f...@kokkinizita.net did opine:
>
> > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 10:35:15AM -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
> > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Chris Cannam
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > Question that just occ
On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 20:22 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 10:52 -0700, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote:
> > On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 14:01 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 01:04 +0200, Arnold Krille wrote:
> > > > We are not talking about 5.1 or 7.1 here. These
On 07/21/2010 07:24 PM, Fons Adriaensen-2 wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 01:05:01AM +0200, Philipp Überbacher wrote:
>
> > I think the word loudness is a problem here. Afaik it usually refers to
> > how it is perceived, and twice the amplitude doesn't mean twice the
> > perceived loudness. It may
On 07/21/2010 07:24 PM, Fons Adriaensen-2 wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 01:05:01AM +0200, Philipp Überbacher wrote:
>
> > I think the word loudness is a problem here. Afaik it usually refers to
> > how it is perceived, and twice the amplitude doesn't mean twice the
> > perceived loudness. It may
...continuation of truncated mail (does anyone know why this happens?)
>From that chart we could get an estimate of the size of the measurement
unit. Frequencies with with bigger SPL variations would be measured
with bigger units, and visa versa. And from this we could deduce what
the minimum prec
On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 21:31 +0200, lieven moors wrote:
> On 07/21/2010 07:24 PM, Fons Adriaensen-2 wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 01:05:01AM +0200, Philipp Überbacher wrote:
> >
> > > I think the word loudness is a problem here. Afaik it usually
> > refers to
> > > how it is perceived, and
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 09:31:09PM +0200, lieven moors wrote:
> Hi Fons, I'm a fool to even try to answer this question.
> But I couldn't resist...
:-)
> Let's suppose we have two sounds A and B,
> and sound B has been measured as being twice as loud as A,
> by somebody. In order to be able to
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 09:55:40PM +0200, lieven moors wrote:
> ...continuation of truncated mail (does anyone know why this happens?)
No such problem here.
Ciao,
--
FA
There are three of them, and Alleline.
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Excerpts from fons's message of 2010-07-22 22:36:58 +0200:
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 09:31:09PM +0200, lieven moors wrote:
>
> > Hi Fons, I'm a fool to even try to answer this question.
> > But I couldn't resist...
>
> :-)
>
> > Let's suppose we have two sounds A and B,
> > and sound B has been
> This is
> probably closer to the object size comparison.
> I wonder how well we can judge something like twice the
> brightness.
> --
or smelling a perfume twice stronger :)
It reminds me a little about intensive and extensive variables in physics. That
may well be unrelated though ...
J.
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 4:50 PM, Philipp Überbacher
wrote:
> We may be comparing the wrong thing when we compare with the size of
> objects to loudness.
> It's relatively easy to say that the interval between sound B and C
> is twice as long as the interval between A and B (given the
> interval a
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 10:50:58PM +0200, Philipp Überbacher wrote:
> We may be comparing the wrong thing when we compare with the size of
> objects to loudness.
Indeed. I did not mention the visual analogy to suggest
that the two domains are similar - rather to point out
they are not. Something
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 01:56:41PM -0700, James Warden wrote:
> > This is
> > probably closer to the object size comparison.
> > I wonder how well we can judge something like twice the
> > brightness.
>
> or smelling a perfume twice stronger :)
A very nice analogy, taking us even deeper into fuz
lieven moors wrote:
> ...continuation of truncated mail (does anyone know why this happens?)
Probably it's the second "From" line; looks like your mail client is
confused by this.
Concerning your question: As other have remarked, that is a very
intricate question which is studied in psychoacousti
On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 13:56 -0700, James Warden wrote:
> > This is
> > probably closer to the object size comparison.
> > I wonder how well we can judge something like twice the
> > brightness.
> > --
>
> or smelling a perfume twice stronger :)
Because the impression of loudness is a mix of 'tas
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 23:24:24 +0200
f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
> We all agree on what 'red' means. Because we have learned
> the meaning of that word by association. But do we 'see'
> the same thing ? AFAIK, that is impossible to verify.
>
> Ciao,
This brings back memories of long arguments amo
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 04:57:41PM -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
> one little side problem with this is that our sensitivity to both
> loudness and brightness is adaptive. this means that although one
> could do some experimental work to determine the ratios that lead most
> people to judge one sound 2
Excerpts from fons's message of 2010-07-22 23:13:45 +0200:
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 10:50:58PM +0200, Philipp Überbacher wrote:
>
> > We may be comparing the wrong thing when we compare with the size of
> > objects to loudness.
>
> Indeed. I did not mention the visual analogy to suggest
> that t
Excerpts from fons's message of 2010-07-22 23:24:24 +0200:
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 01:56:41PM -0700, James Warden wrote:
>
> > > This is
> > > probably closer to the object size comparison.
> > > I wonder how well we can judge something like twice the
> > > brightness.
> >
> > or smelling a per
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 10:37:23PM +0100, Folderol wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 23:24:24 +0200
> f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
>
> > We all agree on what 'red' means. Because we have learned
> > the meaning of that word by association. But do we 'see'
> > the same thing ? AFAIK, that is impossible
> We all agree on what 'red' means. Because we have learned
> the meaning of that word by association. But do we
> 'see'
> the same thing ? AFAIK, that is impossible to verify.
I would tend to say yes, for if I was in your brain to check, I would be you :)
J.
_
On Thursday 22 July 2010 17:24:24 f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
> We all agree on what 'red' means. Because we have learned
> the meaning of that word by association. But do we 'see'
> the same thing ? AFAIK, that is impossible to verify.
Been asking people the above at least since I was a youngish
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 02:57:36PM -0700, James Warden wrote:
> > We all agree on what 'red' means. Because we have learned
> > the meaning of that word by association. But do we
> > 'see'
> > the same thing ? AFAIK, that is impossible to verify.
>
> I would tend to say yes, for if I was in your
> > It reminds me a little about intensive and extensive
> variables
> > in physics. That may well be unrelated though ...
>
> I don't think it is directly related to that particular
> difference. But it certainly is related to a more general
> form of it - seeing each 'unit' in its own domain, a
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 11:49:03PM +0200, Philipp Überbacher wrote:
> Interesting idea. From the little I read about masking it is a complex
> thing as well, frequency, SPL, time between sounds, all that and
> possibly more matters.
Which makes perceptual coding an interesting domain...
> We cou
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 03:09:13PM -0700, James Warden wrote:
> I do think it has something to do with intensive vs extensive in the
> following way:
>
> when we talk about sound waves, temperature, smell, brightness, etc, these
> are macro-observables representing a statistically huge number o
On 07/22/2010 05:02 PM, f...@kokkinizita.net wrote:
Such a 'virtual stereo mic' is part of Tetraproc, and
there's also a Ladspa plugin doing this. The latter has
some problems in Ardour as it has 4 ins and 2 outs, and
Ardour get confused by this and will (IIRC) copy inputs
3 and 4 to the outputs
On 07/22/2010 08:15 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
1. How are the signals brought into phase such that electronically, all mic
ribbons or diaphragms seem to occupy the same space, just facing in
different directions?
well, you can't do that :)
two approaches:
if you only care for horizontal surround (
On 07/22/2010 08:42 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
As an ape (of course I'm an ape like every human is an ape) and troll (I
don't see myself as a troll) I suspect phasing too, that's why I
overstated argued with the next generation Cochlea-Implant, or needles
in the brain.
that is a bogus statement.
On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 23:53 +0200, Philipp Überbacher wrote:
> Excerpts from fons's message of 2010-07-22 23:24:24 +0200:
> > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 01:56:41PM -0700, James Warden wrote:
> >
> > > > This is
> > > > probably closer to the object size comparison.
> > > > I wonder how well we can ju
On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 01:09 +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
> On 07/22/2010 08:42 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
> > As an ape (of course I'm an ape like every human is an ape) and troll (I
> > don't see myself as a troll) I suspect phasing too, that's why I
> > overstated argued with the next generat
On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 08:51 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 01:09 +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
> > On 07/22/2010 08:42 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> >
> > > As an ape (of course I'm an ape like every human is an ape) and troll (I
> > > don't see myself as a troll) I suspect phas
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