Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [off-list] Read this after your first cup of coffee

On Sun, Aug 22, 2004 at 12:50:38PM EST, Paul Davis wrote: > >and determine what is being displayed. JAWS itself actually installs a video > >intercept driver to intercept all video being sent to the screen. > > bwahahaha! creative ... i have to concede that much :) Agreed. You can imagine that it

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [off-list] Read this after your first cup of coffee

>and determine what is being displayed. JAWS itself actually installs a video >intercept driver to intercept all video being sent to the screen. bwahahaha! creative ... i have to concede that much :) >> note, however, that my very limited experience with ardour/ksi >> suggests that a fairly low l

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 06:35:44PM +0200, Melanie wrote: > Left is generally associated with up, right with down, as we read left to > right, top to bottom. Therefore, up MUST map to left, down MUST map to > right, otherwise, non-mathematically minded people get uttely confused. That's crap. It

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [off-list] Read this after your first cup of coffee

On Sun, Aug 22, 2004 at 06:04:00AM EST, John Check wrote: > > mr boggs doesn't use any aspect of the protools GUI to run > > protools. he uses outSPOKEN, a speech recognition system, and a JL > > Cooper control surface. since you could connect this style interfaces to > > more or less any program,

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [off-list] Read this after your first cup of coffee

On Sun, Aug 22, 2004 at 01:49:32AM EST, Paul Davis wrote: > >In terms of using GUI software, there is in fact software for Windows, that > >allows blind/vision impaired users to use Cakewalk Sonar with a screen reader. > >Just how this is done, I do not know, but it is done. > > i think they use a

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Saturday 21 August 2004 06:48 pm, John Check wrote: > On Saturday 21 August 2004 05:50 pm, Lee Revell wrote: > > On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 17:33, John Check wrote: > > > On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:41 pm, Lee Revell wrote: > > > > On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 14:45, Thorsten Wilms wrote: > > > > > Today

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Saturday 21 August 2004 05:50 pm, Lee Revell wrote: > On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 17:33, John Check wrote: > > On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:41 pm, Lee Revell wrote: > > > On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 14:45, Thorsten Wilms wrote: > > > > Today might well have been the first time I used the wheel > > > > on c

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Saturday 21 August 2004 05:47 pm, Lee Revell wrote: > On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 17:31, John Check wrote: > > On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:51 pm, Lee Revell wrote: > > > On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 16:36, John Check wrote: > > > > On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:24 pm, Lee Revell wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 20

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 17:33, John Check wrote: > On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:41 pm, Lee Revell wrote: > > On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 14:45, Thorsten Wilms wrote: > > > Today might well have been the first time I used the wheel > > > on common sliders, and it felt backwards! > > > > Agreed. I can unde

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 17:31, John Check wrote: > On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:51 pm, Lee Revell wrote: > > On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 16:36, John Check wrote: > > > On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:24 pm, Lee Revell wrote: > > > > On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 16:14, John Check wrote: > > > > > On Saturday 21 Aug

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:41 pm, Lee Revell wrote: > On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 14:45, Thorsten Wilms wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 06:35:44PM +0200, Melanie wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > it's backwards in a "numerical" sense, in that the numbers increase > > > with one slider type, but decrease

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:51 pm, Lee Revell wrote: > On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 16:36, John Check wrote: > > On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:24 pm, Lee Revell wrote: > > > On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 16:14, John Check wrote: > > > > On Saturday 21 August 2004 02:10 pm, Pete Bessman wrote: > > > > > I guaran

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 16:36, John Check wrote: > On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:24 pm, Lee Revell wrote: > > On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 16:14, John Check wrote: > > > On Saturday 21 August 2004 02:10 pm, Pete Bessman wrote: > > > > I guarantee you that the last thing on 99.8% of users' minds when > > > >

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 14:45, Thorsten Wilms wrote: > On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 06:35:44PM +0200, Melanie wrote: > > Hi, > > > > it's backwards in a "numerical" sense, in that the numbers increase with > > one slider type, but decrease with another, using the same command. > > > > However, UI desig

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:24 pm, Lee Revell wrote: > On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 16:14, John Check wrote: > > On Saturday 21 August 2004 02:10 pm, Pete Bessman wrote: > > > I guarantee you that the last thing on 99.8% of users' minds when > > > they're adjusting a horizontal volume slider is "This is

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Saturday 21 August 2004 04:22 pm, Lee Revell wrote: > On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 14:38, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 06:35:44PM +0200, Melanie wrote: > > > it's backwards in a "numerical" sense, in that the numbers increase > > > with one slider type, but decrease with another,

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 20:06:01 +0200 Melanie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > On 2004.08.21 20:05 Florian Schmidt wrote: > > Hmm, i cannot believe that users really expect the horizontal > > scrollbars to go right when wheeling down. That just doesn't feel > > natural at all. > > Well, it does

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 16:14, John Check wrote: > On Saturday 21 August 2004 02:10 pm, Pete Bessman wrote: > > > > I guarantee you that the last thing on 99.8% of users' minds when > > they're adjusting a horizontal volume slider is "This is kind of like > > reading a book, which goes left to right

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 14:38, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 06:35:44PM +0200, Melanie wrote: > > > it's backwards in a "numerical" sense, in that the numbers increase with > > one slider type, but decrease with another, using the same command. > > > > However, UI designers don'

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Saturday 21 August 2004 02:10 pm, Pete Bessman wrote: > At Sat, 21 Aug 2004 18:35:44 +0200, > > Melanie wrote: > > Left is generally associated with up, right with down, as we read > > left to right, top to bottom. Therefore, up MUST map to left, down > > MUST map to right, otherwise, non-mathem

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Saturday 21 August 2004 02:06 pm, Melanie wrote: > Hi, > > On 2004.08.21 20:05 Florian Schmidt wrote: > > Hmm, i cannot believe that users really expect the horizontal scrollbars > > to go right when wheeling down. That just doesn't feel natural at all. > > Well, it does feel perfectly natural t

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Saturday 21 August 2004 02:05 pm, Florian Schmidt wrote: > On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 18:35:44 +0200 > > Melanie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > it's backwards in a "numerical" sense, in that the numbers increase > > with one slider type, but decrease with another, using the same > > command

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Read this after your first cup of coffee

On Saturday 21 August 2004 09:33 am, Taybin Rutkin wrote: > On Fri, 2004-08-20 at 15:06, Julien Claassen wrote: > > Hello John! > > I'm writing, because I think, that with one of your points you are > > wrong. You said, that ecasound and cecilia (and perhaps you also meant > > fluidsynth, csound.

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 14:26, martin rumori wrote: > On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 01:56:03PM -0400, Paul Davis wrote: > > also, when i think of road driving signs used to indicate significant > > uphill or downhill sections, my recollection is that in the US and in > > Europe they obey this right=up asso

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [off-list] Read this after your first cup of coffee

On Saturday 21 August 2004 08:10 am, Paul Davis wrote: > >> erm... actually they can: > >> > >> http://www.digidesign.com/users/user_story.cfm?story_id=1020 > > > >well spotted that man. > > well, yes and no. > > "... Boggs believes that a device such as a J. L. Cooper MCS3800 is a > "must" for a b

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [off-list] Read this after your first cup of coffee

On Saturday 21 August 2004 11:49 am, Paul Davis wrote: > >Sorry to be pedantic here Paul, but Outspoken is in fact a screen reader. > > Ther e > >is a difference between a screen reader and speech recognition. > > oops, my mistake. i should have know better, given that ardour/ksi is > *designed* fr

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [off-list] Read this after your first cup of coffee

On Saturday 21 August 2004 08:27 am, Luke Yelavich wrote: > On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 10:10:47PM EST, Paul Davis wrote: > > >> erm... actually they can: > > >> > > >> http://www.digidesign.com/users/user_story.cfm?story_id=1020 > > > > > >well spotted that man. > > > > well, yes and no. > > > > mr bo

[linux-audio-dev] Re: [linux-audio-user] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 11:35, Steve Harris wrote: > On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 01:30:59 -0400, Lee Revell wrote: > > I just installed jack-rack and find the mouse wheel behavior a bit odd. > > The sliders are horizontal, and turning the wheel 'up' (away from you) > > decreases the slider value, and vi

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Read this after your first cup of coffee

On Saturday 21 August 2004 05:15 am, Kai Vehmanen wrote: > On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, John Check wrote: > > I specifically said Cecilia because it's a GUI. IIRC correctly, the > > ecasound originator coded it up because he found the interface to GUI > > systems to be dense, which doesn't give me confiden

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 06:35:44PM +0200, Melanie wrote: > Hi, > > it's backwards in a "numerical" sense, in that the numbers increase with > one slider type, but decrease with another, using the same command. > > However, UI designers don't think in numbers, but associations. > > Left is gener

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 06:35:44PM +0200, Melanie wrote: > it's backwards in a "numerical" sense, in that the numbers increase with > one slider type, but decrease with another, using the same command. > > However, UI designers don't think in numbers, but associations. > > Left is generally ass

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 01:56:03PM -0400, Paul Davis wrote: > also, when i think of road driving signs used to indicate significant > uphill or downhill sections, my recollection is that in the US and in > Europe they obey this right=up association if they actually show the > slope. IIRC correctly

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

>also, when i think of road driving signs used to indicate significant >uphill or downhill sections, my recollection is that in the US and in >Europe they obey this right=up association if they actually show the >slope. humbug. they obey right=forward, not right=up ...

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

Hi, On 2004.08.21 20:05 Florian Schmidt wrote: Hmm, i cannot believe that users really expect the horizontal scrollbars to go right when wheeling down. That just doesn't feel natural at all. Well, it does feel perfectly natural to me... Has there been research done? I would like to see some sources

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

At Sat, 21 Aug 2004 18:35:44 +0200, Melanie wrote: > > Left is generally associated with up, right with down, as we read > left to right, top to bottom. Therefore, up MUST map to left, down > MUST map to right, otherwise, non-mathematically minded people get > uttely confused. This is perhaps the

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

>it's backwards in a "numerical" sense, in that the numbers increase with >one slider type, but decrease with another, using the same command. > >However, UI designers don't think in numbers, but associations. > >Left is generally associated with up, right with down, as we read left to >right, to

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 18:35:44 +0200 Melanie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > it's backwards in a "numerical" sense, in that the numbers increase > with one slider type, but decrease with another, using the same > command. > > However, UI designers don't think in numbers, but associations. >

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

Hallo, Melanie hat gesagt: // Melanie wrote: > Left is generally associated with up, right with down, as we read left to > right, top to bottom. Therefore, up MUST map to left, down MUST map to > right, otherwise, non-mathematically minded people get uttely confused. Well, if I qualify as mathe

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

Hi, it's backwards in a "numerical" sense, in that the numbers increase with one slider type, but decrease with another, using the same command. However, UI designers don't think in numbers, but associations. Left is generally associated with up, right with down, as we read left to right, top to

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Sat, 2004-08-21 at 01:30, Lee Revell wrote: > I just installed jack-rack and find the mouse wheel behavior a bit odd. > The sliders are horizontal, and turning the wheel 'up' (away from you) > decreases the slider value, and vice versa. > > This seems backwards to me. What does everyone else

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [off-list] Read this after your first cup of coffee

>Sorry to be pedantic here Paul, but Outspoken is in fact a screen reader. Ther >e >is a difference between a screen reader and speech recognition. oops, my mistake. i should have know better, given that ardour/ksi is *designed* from scratch to be used with a screen reader :) >In terms of using G

[linux-audio-dev] Re: [linux-audio-user] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 01:30:59 -0400, Lee Revell wrote: > I just installed jack-rack and find the mouse wheel behavior a bit odd. > The sliders are horizontal, and turning the wheel 'up' (away from you) > decreases the slider value, and vice versa. > > This seems backwards to me. What does eve

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Read this after your first cup of coffee

On Fri, 2004-08-20 at 15:06, Julien Claassen wrote: > Hello John! > I'm writing, because I think, that with one of your points you are wrong. > You said, that ecasound and cecilia (and perhaps you also meant fluidsynth, > csound...) aren't really interesting to pros. They are SO DAMN Important

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [off-list] Read this after your first cup of coffee

On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 10:10:47PM EST, Paul Davis wrote: > >> erm... actually they can: > >> > >> http://www.digidesign.com/users/user_story.cfm?story_id=1020 > > > >well spotted that man. > > well, yes and no. > > mr boggs doesn't use any aspect of the protools GUI to run > protools. he uses ou

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [off-list] Read this after your first cup of coffee

>> erm... actually they can: >> >> http://www.digidesign.com/users/user_story.cfm?story_id=1020 > >well spotted that man. well, yes and no. "... Boggs believes that a device such as a J. L. Cooper MCS3800 is a "must" for a blind producer." mr boggs doesn't use any aspect of the protools GUI to r

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

I never noticed the behavior of horizontal scrollbars in GTK because I've never encountered any. Just checked out the behavior of Rhthymbox's seek indicator, it's just as you described (i.e., dain bramaged). That's a bug, plain and simple. --Pete "Nothing great was ever

[linux-audio-dev] Re: [linux-audio-user] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

At Sat, 21 Aug 2004 01:30:59 -0400, Lee Revell wrote: > > What is really needed is a set of human interface guidelines for Linux > audio apps. Better to do this now, while much of the code is not > mature, than later, and have a bunch of different apps which work, > except that the widgets work c

[linux-audio-dev] Re: [off-list] Read this after your first cup of coffee

On 21 Aug 2004, at 11:24, Simon Jenkins wrote: erm... actually they can: http://www.digidesign.com/users/user_story.cfm?story_id=1020 well spotted that man. r

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Read this after your first cup of coffee

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, John Check wrote: > I specifically said Cecilia because it's a GUI. IIRC correctly, the > ecasound originator coded it up because he found the interface to GUI > systems to be dense, which doesn't give me confidence he'd have been > able to find his way around an analog stu

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Read this after your first cup of coffee

Paul Davis wrote: I'm writing, because I think, that with one of your points you are wrong. You said, that ecasound and cecilia (and perhaps you also meant fluidsynth, csound...) aren't really interesting to pros. They are SO DAMN Important to a few users (pros and nonpros) and they are specific

Re: [linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 01:30:59AM -0400, Lee Revell wrote: > I just installed jack-rack and find the mouse wheel behavior a bit odd. > The sliders are horizontal, and turning the wheel 'up' (away from you) > decreases the slider value, and vice versa. Both QT and GTK sliders work that way. Anybo

[linux-audio-dev] mouse wheel behavior and RFC: human interface guidelines

I just installed jack-rack and find the mouse wheel behavior a bit odd. The sliders are horizontal, and turning the wheel 'up' (away from you) decreases the slider value, and vice versa. This seems backwards to me. What does everyone else think? This is one of those things that will *have* to w

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: linux-audio-dev Digest, Vol 11, Issue 35

On Friday 20 August 2004 11:36 pm, John Lazzaro wrote: > On Aug 20, 2004, at 6:43 PM, Paul David wrote: > > there may be people who are sight-impaired who manage to make a living > > as an audio engineer, but i would guess that i could count them all on > > the fingers of one hand. > > Sound on Sou