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On Saturday 14 May 2005 13:45, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
> On Sat, May 14, 2005 at 12:48:34PM +0200, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
> > There is a rule of thumb regarding when you need a conductor, which is
> > about when the the band exceeds 8 people. It is not
On Thu, 2005-05-19 at 14:44 +0200, Tim Goetze wrote:
> [Jens M Andreasen]
> > A "synthesist" (that's my scenario), who can't hear *anything* before
> > the end of the pipe, would be very sensitive to jitter (the deviation,
> > or "sloppyness", between triggers and actual sound) and would therefore
On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 06:11:29PM +0200, Ralf Beck wrote:
> The only reasonable ways to achive lower latencies is to sync jack to an
> interrupt source with higher interrupt frequency than the soundcard or to
> change jack so it subdivides its period into smaller periods and busy wait
> to equall
On Thu, 19 May 2005 23:03:36 +0200
fons adriaensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 05:59:25PM +0200, Florian Schmidt wrote:
>
> > > You shouldn't check for events int jack_process(), but in a separate
> > > thread, linked to jack_process() using a lock-free circular buffer fo
On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 06:11:29PM +0200, Ralf Beck wrote:
> > > To get really accurate timing in all cases, this thread should even have
> > > higher priority than the one created by jackd (*), otherwise all events
> > > that occur while a jack_process() is running will be delayed until the
> > >
On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 05:59:25PM +0200, Florian Schmidt wrote:
> > You shouldn't check for events int jack_process(), but in a separate
> > thread, linked to jack_process() using a lock-free circular buffer for
> > the [event+timestamp] data.
>
> Of course. I assumed that you assumed that i kno
> > To get really accurate timing in all cases, this thread should even have
> > higher priority than the one created by jackd (*), otherwise all events
> > that occur while a jack_process() is running will be delayed until the
> > end of all processing for the current cycle.
>
This won't help, bec
On Thu, 19 May 2005 17:40:41 +0200
Alfons Adriaensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You shouldn't check for events int jack_process(), but in a separate
> thread, linked to jack_process() using a lock-free circular buffer for
> the [event+timestamp] data.
Of course. I assumed that you assumed that
On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 05:25:37PM +0200, Florian Schmidt wrote:
> ...
> The keypress cannot be scheduled for period N+1 (with constant delay) as
> the process_n() (which prepared the buffer that will be audible during
> period N+1) is already done. It can be put into the buffer by
> process_n+1()
On Thu, 19 May 2005 16:41:13 +0200
Alfons Adriaensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 04:06:19PM +0200, Florian Schmidt wrote:
>
> > I don't know of any _reliable_ constant delay (jitter free) way to
> > schedule events happening during period N for playback during period
> >
On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 04:06:19PM +0200, Florian Schmidt wrote:
> I don't know of any _reliable_ constant delay (jitter free) way to
> schedule events happening during period N for playback during period
> N+1. If anyone does, please enlighten me.
Call jack_frame_time() when you get the event, a
On Thu, 19 May 2005 14:14:06 +0200
Jens M Andreasen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The Guitarist, processing the output of an instrument in realtime. The
> roundtrip from sample-in to sample-out is what bothers. Getting a
> reliable RT priority saves the day.
>
> The Synthesist, calculating a s
[Jens M Andreasen]
A "synthesist" (that's my scenario), who can't hear *anything* before
the end of the pipe, would be very sensitive to jitter (the deviation,
or "sloppyness", between triggers and actual sound) and would therefore
require the smallest of small buffers.
Trading jitter for constant
On Thu, 2005-05-19 at 11:30 +0200, fons adriaensen wrote:
> Don't suggest that to a concert master - they tend to be sensitive ;-)
>
My mistake, it is of course the other way around. The band following the
lead from an acknowledged master of the arts. The lead will have to be
somewhat pragmatic
On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 12:01:02AM +0200, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-05-14 at 13:45 +0200, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
> > On Sat, May 14, 2005 at 12:48:34PM +0200, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
> >
> > > There is a rule of thumb regarding when you need a conductor, which is
> > > about when the
On Sat, 2005-05-14 at 13:45 +0200, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
> On Sat, May 14, 2005 at 12:48:34PM +0200, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
>
> > There is a rule of thumb regarding when you need a conductor, which is
> > about when the the band exceeds 8 people. It is not the anarchy that
> > naturally evolves,
On Sat, May 14, 2005 at 11:58:45AM +0200, Benno Senoner wrote:
> [...] I assume that if you hit a pad with
> the stick the pad first goes down, then the elasticity of the pad
> comes into play , absorb the kintetic energy of the stick, which is
> bounced back and at this point the drumpad starts
Hi,
On Saturday 14 May 2005 12:57, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
> On Sat, May 14, 2005 at 11:58:45AM +0200, Benno Senoner wrote:
> > Eg in physics you feel the acceleration but not the speed.
> That's because you feel force, and we have F = m * a.
No, generally you feel the changing of the impuls which
On Sat, May 14, 2005 at 02:29:54PM +0200, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
> ...
> Now that was my mistake!
> ...
Sounds scary enough... wouldn't have liked to be in your place !
You wouldn't have a recording of that truly unique concert ? ;-)
Regards,
--
FA
On Sat, May 14, 2005 at 11:58:45AM +0200, Benno Senoner wrote:
> Plus due to the nature of the sound, low frequency oscillations take
> longer to get recognized since in theory you
> need to hear a full cycle of the wave to "measure" the frequency.
> at 100 Hz it means 10msec ... an eternity for y
On Sat, 2005-05-14 at 13:45 +0200, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
> True.
>
> > But I used to play the clavinet, and therefore naturally excused :)
>
> By no means :-) Down with the privileges of clavinet players ! :-)
>
For what it is worth (and getting old enough to appreciate the homour),
the only
On Sat, May 14, 2005 at 12:48:34PM +0200, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
> There is a rule of thumb regarding when you need a conductor, which is
> about when the the band exceeds 8 people. It is not the anarchy that
> naturally evolves, but the distance between the furthermost band members
> causing the
On Sat, May 14, 2005 at 11:58:45AM +0200, Benno Senoner wrote:
> Since we cannot increase the speed at which the sound travels and even
> DACs add some latency (1msec or so)
> I see any effort to reduce latency below 2-3msec quite useless.
> We know that halving the number of frames (soundcard pe
On Sat, 2005-05-14 at 11:58 +0200, Benno Senoner wrote:
> Plus what happens if your speakers are 1m away from the listener ?
> Another 3msecs added to the total
There is a rule of thumb regarding when you need a conductor, which is
about when the the band exceeds 8 people. It is not the anarchy
Florian's pratical experience confirms what I stated in my other message.
My take on the matter is to get a good soundcard with fast DAC/ADC (
2msec round trip AFAIK)
and use something like 64frames latency. 64 frames gives you still
good,reliable RT performance and does not
push the kernel to t
Since we cannot increase the speed at which the sound travels and even
DACs add some latency (1msec or so)
I see any effort to reduce latency below 2-3msec quite useless.
We know that halving the number of frames (soundcard period size) we run
the audio software at is doubling the IRQ rate
and yo
On Sat, 2005-05-14 at 10:58 +0200, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
> Having the trigger point in mid-space (as for
> contemporary keyboards) isn't excactly helpful, and this is also where I
> get the 0.3ms approximation from.
Reading my own message, I realize that this is not the whole truth; I
actually
On Sat, 2005-05-14 at 08:45 +0200, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
> As for insanity? My belief is that going below 0.3ms latency is
> borderline.
>
Clarificaton:
The good people across the street at Clavia, who actually do commercial
synthesizers, considers anything but "now" to be slowish. Their sens
On Fri, 2005-05-13 at 17:02 -0400, Lee Revell wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-05-13 at 15:46 -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
> > >On Fri, 2005-05-13 at 21:02 +0200, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Say what? Where did the "too many notes" go? Where did the jack xrun go?
> > >>
> > >
> > >They are back
On Fri, 2005-05-13 at 23:34 +0200, Florian Schmidt wrote:
> On Fri, 13 May 2005 17:02:42 -0400
> Lee Revell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > paul knows that zyn is not RT-safe. he had several conversations with
> > > me at LAC2005 about how to redesign the internals. it works fine at
> > > large
On Fri, 13 May 2005 17:02:42 -0400
Lee Revell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > paul knows that zyn is not RT-safe. he had several conversations with
> > me at LAC2005 about how to redesign the internals. it works fine at
> > larger latencies.
>
> Judging from those messages, it seems like it should
On Fri, 2005-05-13 at 15:46 -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
> >On Fri, 2005-05-13 at 21:02 +0200, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Say what? Where did the "too many notes" go? Where did the jack xrun go?
> >>
> >
> >They are back (kind of.)
> >
> >Now I get this everytime I hit the virtual keyboard
On Fri, 2005-05-13 at 15:46 -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
> paul knows that zyn is not RT-safe. he had several conversations with
> me at LAC2005 about how to redesign the internals. it works fine at
> larger latencies.
>
Uhmm, the demo samples at Pauls site made me think that Zyn is the
perfect mate
>On Fri, 2005-05-13 at 21:02 +0200, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
>
>>
>> Say what? Where did the "too many notes" go? Where did the jack xrun go?
>>
>
>They are back (kind of.)
>
>Now I get this everytime I hit the virtual keyboard in zyn:
>
> alsa_pcm: xrun of at least 1.364 msecs
paul knows t
On Friday 13 May 2005 21:02, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-05-13 at 20:05 +0200, Robert Jonsson wrote:
> > I've started to use Zyn now too :) Under mdk 10.2.
> > I think it works, though they haven't packaged the instruments, which is
> > a shame.
> >
> > What is it exactly that you don't
On Fri, 2005-05-13 at 21:02 +0200, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
>
> Say what? Where did the "too many notes" go? Where did the jack xrun go?
>
They are back (kind of.)
Now I get this everytime I hit the virtual keyboard in zyn:
alsa_pcm: xrun of at least 1.364 msecs
delay of 802.000 usec
On Fri, 2005-05-13 at 20:05 +0200, Robert Jonsson wrote:
> I've started to use Zyn now too :) Under mdk 10.2.
> I think it works, though they haven't packaged the instruments, which is a
> shame.
>
> What is it exactly that you don't get to work?
Just about anything (?!)
I can get to the dia
On Friday 13 May 2005 18:28, Jens M Andreasen wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-05-13 at 08:13 -0400, Dave Phillips wrote:
> > Greetings:
> >
> > Now if I can just get seq24 working with JACK... ;)
>
> I see that you are using zynaddsubfx. Now if only I could get that one
> to work ...
>
> :)
>
> It is in Md
On Fri, 2005-05-13 at 08:13 -0400, Dave Phillips wrote:
> Greetings:
> Now if I can just get seq24 working with JACK... ;)
>
I see that you are using zynaddsubfx. Now if only I could get that one
to work ...
:)
It is in Mdk-10.2 (Congratulations Paul), but it seems like nobody cared
to test i
Greetings:
I recently submitted another article for my monthly column at Linux
Journal on-line, it should show up within the next few days. I wanted to
let LA* folks know that I've placed the article's two short example
files here:
http://linux-sound.org/lj-seq24-examples.html
They aren't
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