> Remember what happend to the ISDN-Flatrate.
Yes - but this was something complet differnet !
They had to pay for each Minute - I think tiscali pay only
for The traffic :-)
Eutelsat Eurobird (28.5 Grad Ost) with a
> 75cm eliptic diameter (60 x 90cm) dish and a
> special Transceiver "TiscaliS
> Do they guarantee the 99 Euro/month flat price for a longer period?
I´m sure they will make anyting if a poweruser break up the whole system...
> Do they guarantee a minimum bandwidth?
Yes - 15KB/s down and 6KB/s UP
> Do they support Linux?
Only in the Buissness Modell - there they guarantee a
> What datarates do you get (reliable and maximum)?
That depend on what you take: FTP OR HTTP
The Maximum is: 96kb/S
The minimum is: 36kb/S
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Sorry - forgot Upstream:
Upstream: ~6-8kb/S
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> I think you ment: www.tiscali.de
Yes - sorry
> The biggest problem with this service is, that afaik there is no support
> for Linux at all, but it will be available in this year (at least
> according to their web-pages).
No that´s wrong - here i have the "network-solution" (190EURO/Month) - an
Hi all
in this ML are often questions about "Internet over SAT".
Here in Germany there are 3 1-WAY Internet-Sat-SErvices availible - but
all need a dial-UP connection via ISDN or Modem wich creates
"cost´s per Minute"
Now i have a 2-WAY Internet-Connection without any Traffic or Time
cost´s -
> Wow .. BIG response to the three questions ... anyway .. just to NOT let
> the discussion die, will there be changes to the CAM topic in the
> "NEWSTRUCT" Branch ???
It seem to me that Convergence will not change anything in the CI in the next
time..
And if they wait long enough - the har
> As we all know, the firmware code (which, as far as I see, is most likely
> the place
> where CAM support is broken) is NOT freely available!
Other question:
I have read something about a guy who take the WINDOWS-Firmare of the WINDOWS-Driver
and put it into the "linux-Driver" and all Cam´s wo
> We do not have to fix CAM support for the TI AV771x in order to be
> successful. Most of the manufacturers all using next generation hardware,
> which we will support at our own. The majority of the low level driver
> work
> has to be done at new areas and working cam support for the TI AV771x h
>vdr can do this on pentium 100MHz systems with drives mounted via NFS...
> all the work is done by the dvb card, and the data stream is only few
> MB/s...
No not in all cases - here a 800MHZ is nearly enough for a 4 CARD System...
Sure - if you only use 1 or 2 Card´s a P200 is ok - but not for m
> I removed my analog TV card (because xv now works with DVB thanks to
> Marcus Metzler, and I use my sir for lircd), and the ribbon of the Ci
> was too near from my really hot HD, and it goes on fire...
and it goes on fire...
--<<< don´t you think this is a little bit too
I´m able now to convert a movie with ffmpeg by de/remultiplexing
the stream.
Now ffmpeg is able to read the stream correct.
But - i should have to know it - the output-Stream (mpeg1 with VCD-Specification)
don´t run
smooth on my Hardware Player (also not on the WINDOWS-Media-Player - wich usua
With the old driver (0.8x) i was able to produce a file wich i can progress with
several programms:
I´have searched the old scripts and tryed it again with streams of the new driver (0.9)
First i demultiplexed the stream:
/vdr/DVB/apps/mpegtools/es_demux 004.vdr a1 v1
Then i Multplex it again.
Hi all
If anyone is interested:
mencoder can encode/transcode VDR/DVB-Video files - but the output-File is allways a
AVI-File
It´s possible to build AVI-Files with MPEG1 Codec - but it´s not a MPEG1 file...
So - if anyone have a working-Way to make a REAL-MPEG1 Movie out of a DVB/VDR-File
ple
Hi all
is anyone able to convert a recorded Movie-Sequence (with VDR/DVB) with ffmpeg to
another format ?
I only get error-messages..
I Want to convert it to MPEG1 (VCD)
CU
Axel
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Hi all
I setup a Machine wich habe 2 Card´s in:
DVB-S
WINTV
The WINTV work well now... (i can watch with the Viewer in KDE)
Now i have installed the DVB-S CARD wich i want to use with VDR.
When i make make insmod i get this error Message:
insmod dvb.o init_chan=2 pids_off=0;\
)
Using /
> can somebody give a little advise on what Sat-Internet providers are a
> good choice for Astra 19.2 in Germany. I have read some of the threads in
> this forum and surfed the web-pages of the various providers and it seems
> to me that Europe Online WOULD be a good choice for me.
Do you need 19
> I 've received a data-file which was created by a Nokia D-Box,
> recording the DVB stream from the german radio station DLF
> directly to a SCSI hard-disk.
> It would be great, if this file can be played back - maybe after
> converting - by using the PCI DVBs card running dvb-modules
> and/or V
> I have a haupauge DVB-s Card Rev 2.1.
> I use the composite output.
> I have also an normal DVB-S receiver and i compare the two pictures on
> a 32" TV.
> My opinion is, i can't see any qualitiy differences.
I also have tested the composite output of my D_BOX and i have switched between
DBO
First: I think this should be in VDR mailing-List...
> Does anyone has created a script which is able to make the appropriate
> files
> under /video with automatic sym-links to another (video-)file ?
> My mainproblem is, the /video/MovieName/2001-12-03.21\:11.50.50.rec Subdir
> ?
I understand yo
> there are lots of possible reasons why it doesn'T work.i'm happy for every
> hint.
Yes - i don´t know your exact hardware-Configuration - but here at my BOX it works
realy fine:
4* DVB-S
1* AGP-Graphic-CARD
1* Network-CARD
1* SCSI-CARD
I also had hang-up´s - but here at my side it was the 2
They have chanted now into Euro !
the cheapest CARD i have buyed was in Munich for only 412 DM (new REV2.1)
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> Did anyone else have this problem before? Any suggestions of what it
> could be?
> Can it be realted to the different Audio-DAC used on the 1.5 series.
I only have noticed that the sound-output of MTV ist much to high - so if =
i put it down with VDR sound is ok for me !
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> Hello Axel,
>>If you want to watch (for example) Premiere - you have to use 2 =3D
> DVB=3DB4s and 1
> CI-Adapter with a IrdetoSE4.7 (dont know >if SE4.8 work)
> Err, what do I need the 2nd for while "watching only"? That I need 2 of =
=3D
> them
> for PW, timeshifting and watch_A&record_B is
>>It is only possible if you have a Nova card. The DVB-s has a hardware
>>demux and we can't get at the incoming transport stream.
> so the ideal timeshifting system would consist of one DVB-s and one
> NOVA-type card. Right?
If you don=B4t want to watch encrypted channels !
If you want to watc
- perhaps anyone have some Answers.
PS: If anyone think DVD-Recording is still expensive:
Pioneer DVD-Writer (DVD-R and DVD-RW) - 1093 DM (a Shop in Munich)
DVD-R Medium =B4(noname) 18 DM
DVD-RW ""59 DM
CU
Axel Gruber
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> Hope that this comes to an end.
> Since i read this postings i thought about DVB2000, same there, first a
> wonderfull software.
> Then more and more people coming in wanting to change the software to this
> illigal things, and the end was mr. overdrive gives up depending on many
> reasons.
> I
> Are there any known problems with irdeto-modules and the latest versions
> of
> vdr and dvb-driver (under SuSE 7.2)? Switching to Premiere I get always
> "Transfermode nicht möglich". I didn't use this CAM for about three weeks.
> With older driver- and vdr-versions there was no problem, but I d
> Hauppauge DVB-s
> Sat-Dish with two dual LNB's (Astra & Hotbird)
> 8-port SAT-Switch
Hmm - that´s impossible
Are you sure your Sat-Equipmet is able to get a digital - Signal.
Usualy if you want to recieve Astra and Hotbird with more then 2 Recievers you must
have 2 Quadro-LNB´s and a Diseq 8P
> Ok, this statement was a bit too general. What I wanted to say was
> that transmitting digital signals normally doesn't need such a high
> signal to noise ratio as the old analog system needs.
> (But this depends on the design of the whole system.)
> You can see this for example when comparing n
> Another trick to make an offset dish completely invisible
> is to mount it horizonztal (like a salad dish).
> Just drill a small hole in the deepest point for the next strong rain.
> Another trick is to paint the dish like the wall:
> http:\\
> (In this case the grey stripes have the orginal di
> Sorry to be missleading,
> as of this beeing the linux-DVB mailing list I implicitly did an
> #include
> German Telekom provides private channels.
> But there is no broadcast of private channels in digital format (only
> analog).
The answer is realy simple: The Bandwith is too low... - if th
> It makes therefore ponder, buy a 100 Mbps map?
Sure !
Price is realy low: Each card only 39 DM
If you want to connect only your VDR to your computer - use a Cross-Cable (20m for ca
35DM)
If you want to connect more then 1 Machine you have to buy a 100mbit Hub or switch
(with a switch you will
ut that tere must be another Problem fist but after 3
Day´s same problem again - now i have reinstalled the backuped old driver and i test
it at the moment.
After the next view day´s i will report you what will be happen....
MFG
Axel Gruber
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> that.s what i suggested some time ago.
> but my mail was ignored. don.t know why. ;)
> because THAT would be the easiest way to
> get all the info you need.
> (especially the nice ads i would like to
> get via OSD. ;))
Ok - i have read your mail - but there are 2 Problems:
1. The Interface for
> One question, have you spooken to them wether they like (or at least
> dont care) if do this?
The Service on TVTV is free - everyone can subscribe there free and can use the
feature "MERKLISTE" - what you do with your "merkliste" is your thing.
Some people would certainly be pissed if you
> sorry, but this bothers me. On every mail i write to the linux-dvb list
> the following message was sent to me.
Same here
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> lol - dvb200 lives 2.0beta5 is out now!!! u are wrong! look at
> http://www.dominance.net/overflow/
> and u will see ;)
Yes ? - fine :)
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> i've been following this discussion for some time now:
> nearly everyone has his own ideas on the keys/userinterface/remote
> stuff.
> i would like to have it mostly configurable:
> create a hierarchical (top-menu/sub-menu/...) config file, that
> lists all available options at one point in tim
DVB-S for VDR and the BUDGET for INTERNET ?
3. I´m now playing since 1 Year with the driver - but i don´t know how to setup the
INTERNET-OVER-SAT thing - is there a HOW to DO or a FAQ for this ?
Greetings.
Axel Gruber
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> i think this feature is easy to do and very nice!
Some time ago i asked klaus about this idea:
Everyone have another REMOTE-CONTROLL. - At my Remotecontroll - many buttons are
unused and i thought about to use them to get directrly to "Reconrdings-Menü,
Kanäle,..."
Klaus say´s that he will
> Sorry for my bad documatation. After the record the Irdeto CAM doesn't
> work!
How many card´s do you have ? - and on wich card does it is connected.. ?
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> That the irdeto modul hangs up does know i think everybody. But the last
> day i don't play scenes and the modul also hangs up. After some testings i
> found out, that the modul also hangs up while recording. Does someone also
> have this problem?
You mean it hang up during recording ?
No - bu
at the linux-Machine i can watch it...
Is there anyone who can watch VDR-Movies directly without remultiplexing - and if yes
- with what kind of software
MFG
Axel Gruber
PS: I´m still searching a "clear" linux-Method to convert a VDR-recorded-Movie to
MPEG1 (VCD)
-
> reload it works fine again. In the meantime I also can rule out a heat
> problem because I have installed an additional fan directly above the DVB
> cards,
> so they are now cooled extremely good. And the temperature also wouldn't
> change
> too much while reloading the driver, I guess.
I only
>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> Von: Johannes Feigl [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> Gesendet: Montag, 3. September 2001 20:00
>> An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Betreff: [linux-dvb] vdr with configure and all patches
>>
>> What do you think about making a VDR-pakage, witch includes
>> all possible
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2000 00:31:38 +0100, Axel Gruber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>> Here i can have 3 Recordings (with 3 DVB-CARDS) and 2 Playback´s
>> (2 clients with 1 DVB-CARD in each) - without any Problems !
> How looks your solution for programming the timers?
&g
> Were there any more reporters than those of "Focus", or did someone give
> them an "insider tip"?
Look at the BIG Article at the Computer-Magazine C´t ! - 6 Sites olny over the VDR :-)
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>> you wrote to me that there is a big in the DVB-driver, whitch cause coded
>> channels, e.g. Premiere, not to decrypt any more after playback. Is there
>> a
>> way to restart the DVB-driver without restarting the whole PC ??
> Of course. Just do 'make reload' in the driver directory.
> Of cours
> Else you have to swap cds every 45 minutes... that's really not
> convenient... ;-)
A good idea should be the new CD-FORMAT from SONY with 1,2GB - but also this new
format is not able to hold 1 complete Movie :-(
But the CD-r Media is realy cheap
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> since a few days I'm the proud owner of 2 DVB cards. One of the biggest
> advantages of this configuration for me is the possibility to perform
> timeshift. If I set up a timer, then the second card is used to record
> the program and I can start replaying when ever I want. If I start
> recordin
> Well, it seems that you gave me a lot of infos, but I still didn't
> understand what to buy in a shop to let my card work correctly...
> I ask you, for me, but I think not only, to send me the output of
> commands thet give info about the hardware configurations that are known
> to work by exper
> BTW: what is the date-rate range for DVB ?
> If i look at DVD-data-rates, the differences
> of various films are very big, the differences
> in data-rate in recordings are minimal.
The lowest DATA-RATE i ever have seen was 1,9MBIT/S - at a STATION at 40,5WEST
(USA-SATELLITE) - the highes possi
>> as big as you want (2 hours recordings ~5GB), etc.
> ^^^
> My vdr-box needs ~1.6GB/hour -> 3.2GB/2hours.
> Are you sure your vdr needs that amount of
> space per hour ?
Yes - think about it - it depend on the Transfer-RATE of the STATION you record...
>> Thunderbird 700 and its MotherBoard, which processor and MoBo is the
>> best for DVB-s? Think two ways, I can create a separate box or just
>> stick it in my PC..
>> Ciao Massimiliano.
>>
> You don't need a powerful processor. I am using a Pentium 200 MMX with 64
> Mb
Look at my other posting
> So, yes: I still use my little epg2timers filter program
> for 99% of all my timer programming.
Carsten - do you have updated your programm to use the Telnet-Interface of VDR or do
you still use timers.conf ?
Because this is a conflict with programmed timers by the Remote-Controll - if you hav
Hello to all !
Just a Question:
I use VDR - and i like his EPG-Function. - But at so much TV-Stations - the TV-Screen
is realy too small :-)
I know - CarstenKoch have made a tool to convert the "Merkliste" of TVTV.de to VDR
timers.conf Format - so it´s possible to select your TV-Programm at e
Hi to all
this is realy not a usual problem - if i think about it - it´s not a problem - but i
don´t like it :-)
I have 4 100GB Harddrives in my "Living-Room"-VDR - aditional i have a link to /video0
from a external VDR.
My problem it takes much time from press ENTER at Main Menu to the RECOR
> why is the current driver not able to support a Alphacrypt CI?
No Driver-Versions are working with the newer CI´s (Alphacrypt, Viaccess,...)
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> i just installed vdr a few mins ago. (latest driver / version)
> that was my first time installing it and everything worked fine.
> whall shall i say, vdr is great. But if I put my Alphacrypt CI in the CI
> Interfaces it starts to crash. and it reboots itself until I pull the CI
> modul out agai
> As far as I know there is a new hardware revision 2.1. Does anybody know
> if there is a new linux driver for this card ?
The convergence driver works with this card - but it´s not full implemented jet as i
know...
> What kind of machine is recommended to use it for both VCR and DVD. Will a
>
> Strong agreement!
> In fact, I believe the entire case about cases is a bit OT. ;-)
> Don't we have some serious technical issues left to discuss?
> Let's find solutions for ARM resets, channel not synced,
> audio out of sync, etc.
> At least I believe we need a 100% reliably working VDR
> befor
Hi to all
does anyone have made a patch for VDR to use aditional "external directorys" ?
At all VDR-Versions VDR scan´s only /video0 for Recordings.
I would like to use a second Directory from a other VDR-SYSTEM mountet via NFS...
Other Question:
I´m looking for anyone who can write a short
> Hi all,
> are there any known hdd limitation if I want to record with 4 dvb-cards
> simultaneously? 5400 or 7200 rpm??
No Problem - i have changed the Buffer-Sice in VDR so i can record with 4 DVB-CARD´s
at same time.
Aditional a 5. Record over the NETWORK (NFS).
Here i have 4 Maxtor 100GB
> I´ve got just a little suggestion : I would find it nice if there would
> be some kind of a tree in the recordings-menu, as I did record quite a
> large amount of music-videos. I´ve tried to mv them all to a subdir,
> VDR is finding them, but they are all shown as one entry
> (Music/clawfinger
> I just heard about the analog module for the DVB-C card.
> Would it be possible to use this module to record "normal" PAL signals?
> Or is there another problem, that I do not understand?
if i´m right is this only a tuner for watching analouge Signals at the TV-Output -
but the card don´t hav
>> Aug 3 04:25:53 chewie last message repeated 50 times
>> Aug 3 04:25:53 chewie vdr[860]: buffer usage: 99%
>> Aug 3 04:25:53 chewie last message repeated 46 times
>> Aug 3 04:25:53 chewie vdr[860]: buffer usage: 100%
>> Aug 3 04:25:56 chewie vdr[860]: ERROR (dvbapi.c,532): Unknown error 76
> normal PW channels uses an resolution 480x576 (2/3 D1) points.
> "Premiere 2 + 3" uses 544x576 point, and "Premiere 1" uses mostly 704x576
> points.
Yes - but also higher Audio-Rate
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> Could it possible that the higher resolution on "Premiere 1" caused this?
Premiere 1 use a much higher Audio-Bitrate - but that´s shuld be all.
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Hi
Anyone tryed to connect more then 1 CAM´s to a SYSTEM with more then 1 DVB-S Card´s ?
With the older drivers i only get ARM-Resets - perhaps with the new firmware - it
works ?
Please sent a Mail to me !
Axel Gruber
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Hi
Now it´s some time ago i asked at this list and - perhaps - someone made a Patch...
I´m asking for a MP3 Support for VDR
Axel Gruber
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> ok, get my sytem running well (other hardware config), and i think i know
> some part of the problem,
> Axel, would you please discribe your system that runns with the problems
> (mainboard, cards, memory, harddisk)
Hmm
this is only one of the 2 Recording-VDR´s - so the hardware is a "old" IB
>> That´s a known problem at EON !
>>
>> The problem is not the overload at the satelite - the problem is the
>> overload at ther Backbone !
>>
>> But - forgot it EON is too slow - take Starspeeder - it´s not
>> perfekt - but works a lot better...
> I got a big tree in the direction of Sta
> It should switch between the last visited and the actual channel, so if
> I watch something live and switch to another channel when the
> commercials run, I can simply look if the commercial is over now.
> It would be nice to have this feature on a "color" button when in normal
> viewing mode
> If I start vdr I get very often messages like 'channel not synced' or a
> PID error, the picture gets many times black screen.
Hi - yes - i have the same problem with a "old Viaccess-CAM" and a TV-Station at
Hotbird.
I can´t recieve this station with the complete 09 driver - i only get "cha
say -
it works perfekt !
How should i understand this
Please - one statement !
Axel Gruber
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> You are right, but on the other hand: this is free software that comes
> without warranty. If the driver developers don't like their project
> anymore,
> they can stop working or publicly releasing their code right away. Second,
> nobody stops you from writing your own firmware (this is the only
At this moment i have seen that Ralph have solved something on the driver so that the
new "bigger OSD" will work.
So i will canel something of my fist mail - but not all !
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> Where are you ... what's up at convergence Why is nobody answering
> klaus's questions
I also don´t understand why they allready change/implement new things and dotn´t solve
the "old know´n Problems"
For Example: Channel switching - everyone knows that the driver shut down if you make
h
> I run my DVR with the latest drivers and latest software version. When I
> insert a Aston 1.05 cam in my machine
> everything slows down. After some channel changes, which takes seconds,
> the whole system seems to hang.
> The only thing I can do is turn off, remove the cam and turn on the
> mac
d connect via SSH to my VDR-Machine and
take a look what is wrong.
I don´t know what should i do.
And i´m sure i have made some bad mistakes...
CU
Axel Gruber
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> Why don't you use a reliable time source like an NTP server or a DCF77
> clock? The time signal on many transponders is way off anyway.
MY vdr have a Internet-Connection through the local Network - so i syncronice the Time
every day with a TIME-SERVER at the internet - so all Machines in my n
>> and in the log i get ERROR: /video: no such file or directory.
Nope - that mean the "Video-Store Direcotry"
/video or /video0 /video1 /video (if you have more drives)
Like 4 new MAXTOR 100GB drivs :-)
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How many card´s do you have ?
If you have 1 - check your CI-Parameters in Channels.conf - this should be 1
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Hi
I want to convert the "old" PVA Format to the MPEG2 format.
Does there exist a LINUX-Proggy for this ?
I only have a WINDOWS-Proggy called: PVA2MPG
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> Is anybody here having a Irdeto 4.6 se working with
> vdr and Premiere?
Yes
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> Anyone to volunter the new Channel-List for Premiere World. (You know,
> tomorrow they will combine some channel. Add new channels ...)
Yes - i think you have to wait some hours - then i will post it here in the list :-)
CU
PS: No big changes
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Perhaps i´m wrong - but it seem, that it depend on the used Hardware
My old configuraiton:
Asus-Mainboard with PII 450 MHZ
I often had this problem (changing Colors)
Now - the new Mainboard:
MSI Mainboard
P-Celeron 700MHZ
no problem yet
Same Version of software.
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Now i have made some TEST´s with this CI and the (official- CARD):
NOKIA 9800 with CI - works fine
Humax - works fine
Then i have put the DVB-S CARD and the CI-INterface into one of my WINDOWS-SYSTEM
(WIN2000) and tryed the 1.23 Orginal-Software + WINDVBLIVE Software - also works fine !
Then i
Hi to all.
I have a very big problem:
At my SYSTEM ( DVB-DRIVER 8.x) - everything works fine (IRDETO-CI and ASTRONSECA-CI)
but at the moment if i insert a new VIACCESS CI into the CAM-SLOT i get the following
Error-MESSAGES in /var/log/messages:
commandrequest error
dvb: filter shutdown error
> most expensive LCD Display
> 5 sat cards
> 4 x 80 GB hard disks
> I think, you are the winner in this list with the most oversized
> hardware :-)
Perhaps - but i don´t like the word: "oversiced" - because - the VDR Projekt isn´t
a"low-Cost-Project" - every one have to know that he have then
Some time ago i also searched a Display wich i can read from a distance of 4-5 Meters.
So i found a realy Cool display: 4*40 with 12mm Scripthigh (Zeichenhöhe)
You can read this display very good and it works with LCDproc.
The Problem is the Price: 580 DM - But now - i have a realy "cool" VDR-
Hello to all !
Does anyone know if a VIACCESS-CICAM works with the TT-DVB CARD and the Linux-Driver ?
If anyone use a Viacess - please sent a short Mail to me!
Thanks to all.
Axel
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Hi
> Ok, i think that is the problem. But where can i find the teletext PID? I
> only found in the list the V-PID und A-PID on the internet pages.
You can use the SettingsFiles from http://www.rehtec.com/default2.htm or www.dxandy.de
Then you need a Editor for this files - like DVB-EDIT - that
> Has anyone tried the (more expensive) callando "skyflat"
> service?
> See http://www.callando.de/flat4you/index.php3?cat=privateflat
Same like EON :-((
I use the new Starspeeder - works realy fine (400kb/s).
But i don´t find a way jet to use it with LINUX
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> I think this AND a driver who will work with more than one Card could work
> for ALL possible configurations:) A better solution could not build, i
> think.
This would be realy great !
But some time ago Ralph sayed to me that they don´t plan to modify the CAM-things in
the driver in the near
> Currently you would need two VDR machines for that, because the driver
> only supports one single CAM per machine :-(
Also in Future it´s not a bad idea to implement a "VDR-COMUNICATION-LANGUAGE" so 2 or
mor VDR systems can cumunicate togehter to split ther work.
I have now 4 DVB-S CARD´s in
> Thats why I'm asking. When you are finished with building in
> support for the CI IR receiver, how do you access it ? lircd ?
I think that there are other thinks wich have a much higher Priority !
- Channel Switching-Problem
- ARM-RESET´s
- Better CAM-Support
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> Hi Klaus and the rest in here,
> i think u can find some nice information on this page
> http://www.dominance.net/overflow/
> U also should contact the programmer - he is a very nice guy! I think he
> could help u to build this AC3 thing.
I don´t think you will reach Uli Hermann (this is his Re
Try: www.dvb-sat.de
there you will geht the ASTRON for 279 DM = 140 Euro
CU
Axel
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