On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:44:50PM +, Daniel Phillips wrote:
> Hi Willy,
>
> I understand completely. I don't blame you. Filter the thread. Done.
So because people speak loudly at night below my window in summer, I
have to close the window and install a fan to get some air ? And all
the
Hi Willy,
I understand completely. I don't blame you. Filter the thread. Done.
I am not tired of the subject, quite the contrary. Please do not speak
for me in that regard. After many years of wandering in the toxic
wasteland, finally some actual progress.
Regards,
Daniel
--
To unsubscribe
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:51:21PM +, Daniel Phillips wrote:
> On 07/25/2013 02:34 PM, Willy Tarreau wrote:
> > Guys, could we please stop this endless boring thread ?
>
> Willy, I believe we are on the same side of the civility debate, but I
> somehow got the feeling that you just
On 07/25/2013 02:34 PM, Willy Tarreau wrote:
> Guys, could we please stop this endless boring thread ?
Willy, I believe we are on the same side of the civility debate, but I
somehow got the feeling that you just characterized my comment re "open
and honest" as "endless and boring".
I agree
On Thu, 2013-07-25 at 16:33 +0200, Willy Tarreau wrote:
> Guys, could we please stop this endless boring thread ?
Just do what I did and kill it with a /dev/null filter.
But wait! How did I see this email? Oh shit! It's come back from the
dead
-- Steve
--
To unsubscribe from this list:
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 09:00:37AM -0500, Felipe Contreras wrote:
> Moving on. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed
> without evidence.
Guys, could we please stop this endless boring thread ?
Thank you.
Willy
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 3:57 AM, Daniel Phillips
wrote:
> On 07/24/2013 12:51 AM, Felipe Contreras wrote:
>> Your mistaken fallacy seems to be that you think one can *always* be
>> both A (open and honest), and B (polite)...
>
> You are are right, I do think that you can *always* be both open and
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 3:57 AM, Daniel Phillips
d.phill...@partner.samsung.com wrote:
On 07/24/2013 12:51 AM, Felipe Contreras wrote:
Your mistaken fallacy seems to be that you think one can *always* be
both A (open and honest), and B (polite)...
You are are right, I do think that you can
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 09:00:37AM -0500, Felipe Contreras wrote:
Moving on. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed
without evidence.
Guys, could we please stop this endless boring thread ?
Thank you.
Willy
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe
On Thu, 2013-07-25 at 16:33 +0200, Willy Tarreau wrote:
Guys, could we please stop this endless boring thread ?
Just do what I did and kill it with a /dev/null filter.
But wait! How did I see this email? Oh shit! It's come back from the
dead
-- Steve
--
To unsubscribe from this list:
On 07/25/2013 02:34 PM, Willy Tarreau wrote:
Guys, could we please stop this endless boring thread ?
Willy, I believe we are on the same side of the civility debate, but I
somehow got the feeling that you just characterized my comment re open
and honest as endless and boring.
I agree that the
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:51:21PM +, Daniel Phillips wrote:
On 07/25/2013 02:34 PM, Willy Tarreau wrote:
Guys, could we please stop this endless boring thread ?
Willy, I believe we are on the same side of the civility debate, but I
somehow got the feeling that you just characterized
Hi Willy,
I understand completely. I don't blame you. Filter the thread. Done.
I am not tired of the subject, quite the contrary. Please do not speak
for me in that regard. After many years of wandering in the toxic
wasteland, finally some actual progress.
Regards,
Daniel
--
To unsubscribe
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:44:50PM +, Daniel Phillips wrote:
Hi Willy,
I understand completely. I don't blame you. Filter the thread. Done.
So because people speak loudly at night below my window in summer, I
have to close the window and install a fan to get some air ? And all
the
On Wed, 2013-07-24 at 09:23 -0700, James Bottomley wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 21:38 -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> > On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 18:26 -0700, James Bottomley wrote:
> >
> > > I think it's not in the original fallacies because they come from Greek
> > > rhetoric and the Greeks
On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 21:38 -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 18:26 -0700, James Bottomley wrote:
>
> > I think it's not in the original fallacies because they come from Greek
> > rhetoric and the Greeks believed dialectic: the taking opposite
> > positions and arguing them
On 07/24/2013 12:51 AM, Felipe Contreras wrote:
> Your mistaken fallacy seems to be that you think one can *always* be
> both A (open and honest), and B (polite)...
You are are right, I do think that you can *always* be both open and
honest, and polite. I do not believe that I am mistaken. And I
On 07/24/2013 12:51 AM, Felipe Contreras wrote:
Your mistaken fallacy seems to be that you think one can *always* be
both A (open and honest), and B (polite)...
You are are right, I do think that you can *always* be both open and
honest, and polite. I do not believe that I am mistaken. And I
On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 21:38 -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote:
On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 18:26 -0700, James Bottomley wrote:
I think it's not in the original fallacies because they come from Greek
rhetoric and the Greeks believed dialectic: the taking opposite
positions and arguing them thoroughly.
On Wed, 2013-07-24 at 09:23 -0700, James Bottomley wrote:
On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 21:38 -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote:
On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 18:26 -0700, James Bottomley wrote:
I think it's not in the original fallacies because they come from Greek
rhetoric and the Greeks believed
On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 21:48 -0400, Paul Gortmaker wrote:
> C'mon folks. This is beyond silly. Let us look at the things that we
> can really change, or at least influence change within. Things that
> really matter to linux today and tomorrow.
Ah, so there is middle ground between creationism
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:26 PM, James Bottomley
wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 19:51 -0500, Felipe Contreras wrote:
>> On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Daniel Phillips
>> wrote:
>> > On 07/20/2013 12:36 PM, Felipe Contreras wrote:
>> >> I think you need more than "hope" to change one of the
On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 18:26 -0700, James Bottomley wrote:
> I think it's not in the original fallacies because they come from Greek
> rhetoric and the Greeks believed dialectic: the taking opposite
> positions and arguing them thoroughly. It's only with the advent of
> Western European political
On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 19:51 -0500, Felipe Contreras wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Daniel Phillips
> wrote:
> > On 07/20/2013 12:36 PM, Felipe Contreras wrote:
> >> I think you need more than "hope" to change one of the fundamental
> >> rules of LKML; be open and honest, even if that
On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Daniel Phillips
wrote:
> On 07/20/2013 12:36 PM, Felipe Contreras wrote:
>> I think you need more than "hope" to change one of the fundamental
>> rules of LKML; be open and honest, even if that means expressing your
>> opinion in a way that others might consider
On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Daniel Phillips
d.phill...@partner.samsung.com wrote:
On 07/20/2013 12:36 PM, Felipe Contreras wrote:
I think you need more than hope to change one of the fundamental
rules of LKML; be open and honest, even if that means expressing your
opinion in a way that
On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 19:51 -0500, Felipe Contreras wrote:
On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Daniel Phillips
d.phill...@partner.samsung.com wrote:
On 07/20/2013 12:36 PM, Felipe Contreras wrote:
I think you need more than hope to change one of the fundamental
rules of LKML; be open and
On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 18:26 -0700, James Bottomley wrote:
I think it's not in the original fallacies because they come from Greek
rhetoric and the Greeks believed dialectic: the taking opposite
positions and arguing them thoroughly. It's only with the advent of
Western European political
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:26 PM, James Bottomley
james.bottom...@hansenpartnership.com wrote:
On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 19:51 -0500, Felipe Contreras wrote:
On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Daniel Phillips
d.phill...@partner.samsung.com wrote:
On 07/20/2013 12:36 PM, Felipe Contreras wrote:
I
On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 21:48 -0400, Paul Gortmaker wrote:
C'mon folks. This is beyond silly. Let us look at the things that we
can really change, or at least influence change within. Things that
really matter to linux today and tomorrow.
Ah, so there is middle ground between creationism and
On 2013/7/23 9:39, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 09:26 +0800, Li Zefan wrote:
>
>> IT companies in China, they try to make sure there's at least one (most the
>> time the result is just one) female developer/tester in a team, and a team
>> is ~10 people. Even if it's a kernel
On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 09:26 +0800, Li Zefan wrote:
> IT companies in China, they try to make sure there's at least one (most the
> time the result is just one) female developer/tester in a team, and a team
> is ~10 people. Even if it's a kernel team, but it's harder to meet.
>
> Don't know if
On 2013/7/21 21:22, Ric Wheeler wrote:
> On 07/20/2013 01:04 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
>> n Fri, 2013-07-19 at 13:42 -0500, Felipe Contreras wrote:
>>> >On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 7:08 AM, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> >
> >* Felipe Contreras wrote:
>>> >
> > >>As Linus already pointed out, not
On 2013/7/21 21:22, Ric Wheeler wrote:
On 07/20/2013 01:04 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
n Fri, 2013-07-19 at 13:42 -0500, Felipe Contreras wrote:
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 7:08 AM, Ingo Molnarmi...@kernel.org wrote:
* Felipe Contrerasfelipe.contre...@gmail.com wrote:
As Linus already
On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 09:26 +0800, Li Zefan wrote:
IT companies in China, they try to make sure there's at least one (most the
time the result is just one) female developer/tester in a team, and a team
is ~10 people. Even if it's a kernel team, but it's harder to meet.
Don't know if the
On 2013/7/23 9:39, Steven Rostedt wrote:
On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 09:26 +0800, Li Zefan wrote:
IT companies in China, they try to make sure there's at least one (most the
time the result is just one) female developer/tester in a team, and a team
is ~10 people. Even if it's a kernel team, but
On 07/20/2013 01:04 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
n Fri, 2013-07-19 at 13:42 -0500, Felipe Contreras wrote:
>On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 7:08 AM, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> >
> >* Felipe Contreras wrote:
>
> >>As Linus already pointed out, not everybody has to work with everybody.
> >
> >That's not the
On 07/20/2013 01:04 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
n Fri, 2013-07-19 at 13:42 -0500, Felipe Contreras wrote:
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 7:08 AM, Ingo Molnarmi...@kernel.org wrote:
* Felipe Contrerasfelipe.contre...@gmail.com wrote:
As Linus already pointed out, not everybody has to work with
On 07/20/2013 12:36 PM, Felipe Contreras wrote:
> I think you need more than "hope" to change one of the fundamental
> rules of LKML; be open and honest, even if that means expressing your
> opinion in a way that others might consider offensive and colorful.
Logical fallacy type: bifurcation. You
On Fri, 2013-07-19 at 13:42 -0500, Felipe Contreras wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 7:08 AM, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> >
> > * Felipe Contreras wrote:
>
> >> As Linus already pointed out, not everybody has to work with everybody.
> >
> > That's not the point though, the point is to potentially
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 3:03 PM, Geert Uytterhoeven
wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 8:42 PM, Felipe Contreras
> wrote:
>> On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 7:08 AM, Ingo Molnar wrote:
>>>
>>> * Felipe Contreras wrote:
>>
As Linus already pointed out, not everybody has to work with everybody.
>>>
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 3:03 PM, Geert Uytterhoeven
ge...@linux-m68k.org wrote:
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 8:42 PM, Felipe Contreras
felipe.contre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 7:08 AM, Ingo Molnar mi...@kernel.org wrote:
* Felipe Contreras felipe.contre...@gmail.com wrote:
As
On Fri, 2013-07-19 at 13:42 -0500, Felipe Contreras wrote:
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 7:08 AM, Ingo Molnar mi...@kernel.org wrote:
* Felipe Contreras felipe.contre...@gmail.com wrote:
As Linus already pointed out, not everybody has to work with everybody.
That's not the point though, the
On 07/20/2013 12:36 PM, Felipe Contreras wrote:
I think you need more than hope to change one of the fundamental
rules of LKML; be open and honest, even if that means expressing your
opinion in a way that others might consider offensive and colorful.
Logical fallacy type: bifurcation. You can
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 16:43:53 -0400 Steven Rostedt wrote:
> On Fri, 2013-07-19 at 13:33 -0700, James Bottomley wrote:
>
> > If you're basing your entire theory on male/female interaction on
> > teenagers, then I'm afraid your wife might be on to something ...
>
> No, it's also based on
On Fri, 2013-07-19 at 13:33 -0700, James Bottomley wrote:
> If you're basing your entire theory on male/female interaction on
> teenagers, then I'm afraid your wife might be on to something ...
No, it's also based on interaction with my Wife and her sister too ;-)
-- Steve
--
To unsubscribe
On Fri, 2013-07-19 at 14:56 -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> On Fri, 2013-07-19 at 13:42 -0500, Felipe Contreras wrote:
>
> > But you are avoiding the question as well; do you think there's
> > something fundamentally different about the female brain that makes
> > them more susceptible to personal
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 8:42 PM, Felipe Contreras
wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 7:08 AM, Ingo Molnar wrote:
>>
>> * Felipe Contreras wrote:
>
>>> As Linus already pointed out, not everybody has to work with everybody.
>>
>> That's not the point though, the point is to potentially roughly
On Fri, 2013-07-19 at 13:42 -0500, Felipe Contreras wrote:
> But you are avoiding the question as well; do you think there's
> something fundamentally different about the female brain that makes
> them more susceptible to personal attacks? If yes, where is the
> scientific evidence? If there's no
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 7:08 AM, Ingo Molnar wrote:
>
> * Felipe Contreras wrote:
>> As Linus already pointed out, not everybody has to work with everybody.
>
> That's not the point though, the point is to potentially roughly double
> the creative brain capacity of the Linux kernel project.
On 07/18/2013 11:03 PM, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
>>
>> Ie. It's a *very good* barrier against maintainers sliding into
>> sloppyness. Really, it works. At least with me.
>>
>> It's easy to take things a bit too much for granted, especially when you
>> maintain your own little corner of the world.
>
* Felipe Contreras wrote:
> [...]
>
> Anyway, through the discussion it has been established that swearing is
> rare, most of often directed to the code, and on exceptional occasions
> directed to people, when they *deserve* it. And you seem to be implying
> that women can't tolerate that,
* Willy Tarreau wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 07:40:43AM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
>
> > Go look at Dreamwidth, the open source Livejournal fork. It has a
> > good code of conduct, so developers are civil to each other. They
> > encourage all patch submissions, and take the time to work
* Steven Rostedt wrote:
> On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 11:51 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
>
> > > I have to ask. How much verbal abuse have you received in LKML? And I
> > > don't mean in this thread.
> >
> > I assume you also want me to exclude the verbal abuse and personal
> > threats I've received
On 07/15/2013 05:38 PM, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> A small panel discussion with a few people (fiveish?) that have very
> different viewpoints, along with baskets of rotten fruit set out on
> the tables?
As I think the purpose of this discussion was to improve linux by
attracting and growing new
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 12:01:05PM +1000, Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:
> On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 10:14 +0400, James Bottomley wrote:
> > > OK, I am stupid enough to take a stab at this...
> > >
> > > 1.Does the Linux kernel community's health depend on the occasional
> > > rant? [My
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 12:01:05PM +1000, Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:
On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 10:14 +0400, James Bottomley wrote:
OK, I am stupid enough to take a stab at this...
1.Does the Linux kernel community's health depend on the occasional
rant? [My guess is that we
On 07/15/2013 05:38 PM, Linus Torvalds wrote:
A small panel discussion with a few people (fiveish?) that have very
different viewpoints, along with baskets of rotten fruit set out on
the tables?
As I think the purpose of this discussion was to improve linux by
attracting and growing new
* Steven Rostedt rost...@goodmis.org wrote:
On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 11:51 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
I have to ask. How much verbal abuse have you received in LKML? And I
don't mean in this thread.
I assume you also want me to exclude the verbal abuse and personal
threats I've
* Willy Tarreau w...@1wt.eu wrote:
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 07:40:43AM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
Go look at Dreamwidth, the open source Livejournal fork. It has a
good code of conduct, so developers are civil to each other. They
encourage all patch submissions, and take the time to
* Felipe Contreras felipe.contre...@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
Anyway, through the discussion it has been established that swearing is
rare, most of often directed to the code, and on exceptional occasions
directed to people, when they *deserve* it. And you seem to be implying
that women
On 07/18/2013 11:03 PM, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
Ie. It's a *very good* barrier against maintainers sliding into
sloppyness. Really, it works. At least with me.
It's easy to take things a bit too much for granted, especially when you
maintain your own little corner of the world.
Agreed!
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 7:08 AM, Ingo Molnar mi...@kernel.org wrote:
* Felipe Contreras felipe.contre...@gmail.com wrote:
As Linus already pointed out, not everybody has to work with everybody.
That's not the point though, the point is to potentially roughly double
the creative brain
On Fri, 2013-07-19 at 13:42 -0500, Felipe Contreras wrote:
But you are avoiding the question as well; do you think there's
something fundamentally different about the female brain that makes
them more susceptible to personal attacks? If yes, where is the
scientific evidence? If there's no
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 8:42 PM, Felipe Contreras
felipe.contre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 7:08 AM, Ingo Molnar mi...@kernel.org wrote:
* Felipe Contreras felipe.contre...@gmail.com wrote:
As Linus already pointed out, not everybody has to work with everybody.
That's not
On Fri, 2013-07-19 at 14:56 -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote:
On Fri, 2013-07-19 at 13:42 -0500, Felipe Contreras wrote:
But you are avoiding the question as well; do you think there's
something fundamentally different about the female brain that makes
them more susceptible to personal
On Fri, 2013-07-19 at 13:33 -0700, James Bottomley wrote:
If you're basing your entire theory on male/female interaction on
teenagers, then I'm afraid your wife might be on to something ...
No, it's also based on interaction with my Wife and her sister too ;-)
-- Steve
--
To unsubscribe
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 16:43:53 -0400 Steven Rostedt rost...@goodmis.org wrote:
On Fri, 2013-07-19 at 13:33 -0700, James Bottomley wrote:
If you're basing your entire theory on male/female interaction on
teenagers, then I'm afraid your wife might be on to something ...
No, it's also based
Il 16/07/2013 20:27, James Bottomley ha scritto:
> I'm perfectly happy to run linux-scsi along reasonable standards of
> civility and try to keep the debates technical, but that's far easier to
> do on a low traffic list; obviously, I realise that style of argument
> doesn't suit everyone, so it's
Il 16/07/2013 20:27, James Bottomley ha scritto:
I'm perfectly happy to run linux-scsi along reasonable standards of
civility and try to keep the debates technical, but that's far easier to
do on a low traffic list; obviously, I realise that style of argument
doesn't suit everyone, so it's not
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 03:24:18PM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> > > Abuse is never justified, I hope that's clear for everybody.
> >
> > Depends on details of your definition of abuse.
[snip]
> http://outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/VerbalAbuse.html
" "Always" and "Never" Statements - "Always"
ot;Darren Hart" , "Ingo Molnar" ,
> "Olivier Galibert" ,
> "Linux Kernel Mailing List" , "stable"
> , "Linus Torvalds"
> , "Willy Tarreau"
> Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 10:48:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-disc
On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 11:51 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> Here's a gem from a senior software developer at Nvidia:
> https://picasaweb.google.com/116960357493251979546/Trolls#5901298464591248626
>
> And another email from a software developer in Portland, where I live:
>
On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 10:14 +0400, James Bottomley wrote:
> > OK, I am stupid enough to take a stab at this...
> >
> > 1.Does the Linux kernel community's health depend on the occasional
> > rant? [My guess is that we simply have no way of knowing.
> > That said, I would be
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 04:19:34PM -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 04:08:31PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 03:49:23PM -0700, Randy Dunlap wrote:
> > > On 07/17/13 15:02, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 07:40:43AM -0700, Sarah
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Sarah Sharp
wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 07:42:44PM +0100, Al Viro wrote:
>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 06:56:16PM +0100, Stefano Stabellini wrote:
>>
>> > Abuse is never justified, I hope that's clear for everybody.
>>
>> Depends on details of your definition of
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 04:08:31PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 03:49:23PM -0700, Randy Dunlap wrote:
> > On 07/17/13 15:02, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 07:40:43AM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> > >
> > > [ ... ]
> > >>
> > >> The result: 75% of
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 03:49:23PM -0700, Randy Dunlap wrote:
> On 07/17/13 15:02, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 07:40:43AM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> >
> > [ ... ]
> >>
> >> The result: 75% of their developers are women. If you give a flying
> >> fuck about diversity, and
Sarah Sharp wrote:
> https://picasaweb.google.com/116960357493251979546/Trolls#5901298464591248626
> https://picasaweb.google.com/116960357493251979546/Trolls#5901288095984358098
>
> On my blog, here's some choice comments, mostly asking me to quit kernel
> development, along with more than a few
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 09:03:35AM -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 13:30 +0100, Ricardo Ferreira wrote:
> > Slashdot is just a cesspool of trolls, not a good comparison.
>
> Point taken.
>
> I posted this privately, and I think I'll repost it here. I need to
> modify it a
On 07/17/13 15:02, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 07:40:43AM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>>
>> The result: 75% of their developers are women. If you give a flying
>> fuck about diversity, and want to attract women to your open source
>
> The f word is considered highly
On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 11:51 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> No, it's actually some of the comments I've received that bother me.
> For example, I would never want to deal with the misogynist troll,
> Lubin, EVER again.
It surprises me to see you calling someone names like that, Sarah. It
seems to be
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 07:42:44PM +0100, Al Viro wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 06:56:16PM +0100, Stefano Stabellini wrote:
>
> > Abuse is never justified, I hope that's clear for everybody.
>
> Depends on details of your definition of abuse.
>
> > So we are down to the definition of verbal
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 07:40:43AM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
[ ... ]
>
> The result: 75% of their developers are women. If you give a flying
> fuck about diversity, and want to attract women to your open source
The f word is considered highly offensive in some cultures. Granted its use is
now
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 10:14:49AM +0400, James Bottomley wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 14:18 -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:27:09PM +0400, James Bottomley wrote:
> > > On Mon, 2013-07-15 at 15:38 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> > > > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:08 PM,
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> I've said it several times in this thread. I think the tone of LKML has
> been getting more tame, and it's not your father's mailing list
> anymore. ;-)
Indeed.
Several (definitely more than 5) years ago, there was a presentation (IIRC
> I think it's pretty clear that one doesn't need to be verbally abusive
> in order to stop bad code from getting into the kernel.
Actually, it *not* clear. Without drawing fine distinctions about
the definition of "abusive", I think Linus's rants have a real purpose
at times.
One is so that
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 11:51:38AM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> I assume you also want me to exclude the verbal abuse and personal
> threats I've received via email and my blog because of this thread.
> But, just for reference, I'll post them here as well.
[ comments removed not to give them too
On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 11:51 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> > I have to ask. How much verbal abuse have you received in LKML? And I
> > don't mean in this thread.
>
> I assume you also want me to exclude the verbal abuse and personal
> threats I've received via email and my blog because of this
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013, Sarah Sharp wrote:
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 11:09:31AM -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote:
On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 07:48 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
Does that sound like there are not going to have enough direct/thick skin
new kernel developers around to maintain the future Linux
From: Sarah Sharp
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 07:40:43 -0700
> If you give a flying fuck about diversity
...
Pot, meet kettle.
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On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 01:28:59PM -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 18:00 +0100, Stefano Stabellini wrote:
> > On Wed, 17 Jul 2013, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> > > The last thing I want to do is to lower the quality of the kernel just
> > > to get a wider range of developers.
> >
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 11:09:31AM -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 07:48 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
>
> > > Does that sound like there are not going to have enough direct/thick skin
> > > new kernel developers around to maintain the future Linux community? Maybe
> > > just
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Luck, Tony wrote:
>> Those are just stories; things that happened. What you need to provide
>> is *evidence* that if the community changes, things will be better,
>> and unless you have a study of series of collaborative groups like the
>> Linux kernel, that
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 06:56:16PM +0100, Stefano Stabellini wrote:
> Abuse is never justified, I hope that's clear for everybody.
Depends on details of your definition of abuse.
> So we are down to the definition of verbal abuse.
> The Oxford dictionary gives me:
>
> "speak to (someone) in an
> Those are just stories; things that happened. What you need to provide
> is *evidence* that if the community changes, things will be better,
> and unless you have a study of series of collaborative groups like the
> Linux kernel, that demonstrates that suppressing swearing has a
> positive
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Stefano Stabellini
wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jul 2013, Felipe Contreras wrote:
>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Stefano Stabellini
>> wrote:
>> > On Wed, 17 Jul 2013, Steven Rostedt wrote:
>> >> The last thing I want to do is to lower the quality of the kernel
On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 10:41 -0700, Randy Dunlap wrote:
> The big disadvantage is that it leaves out several hundred (or thousdand)
> people.
I see that as an advantage ;-)
We could video tape it for the entertainment value.
-- Steve
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On Wed, 17 Jul 2013, Felipe Contreras wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Stefano Stabellini
> wrote:
> > On Wed, 17 Jul 2013, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> >> The last thing I want to do is to lower the quality of the kernel just
> >> to get a wider range of developers.
> >
> > Can we stop
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 06:00:46PM +0100, Stefano Stabellini wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jul 2013, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> > The last thing I want to do is to lower the quality of the kernel just
> > to get a wider range of developers.
>
> Can we stop bringing the quality of the code into the discussion?
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