Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2014-08-20 Thread Alexander Holler
Am 20.08.2014 11:47, schrieb Alexander Holler: Am 20.08.2014 11:28, schrieb Hagen Paul Pfeifer: On 20 August 2014 11:07, Alexander Holler wrote: For sure it could be better, but I'm already happy with the current imperfect solution which I can use now and not some perfect solution which might

Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2014-08-20 Thread Alexander Holler
Am 20.08.2014 11:28, schrieb Hagen Paul Pfeifer: On 20 August 2014 11:07, Alexander Holler wrote: For sure it could be better, but I'm already happy with the current imperfect solution which I can use now and not some perfect solution which might be available in some years. Alexander, to mak

Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2014-08-20 Thread Hagen Paul Pfeifer
On 20 August 2014 11:07, Alexander Holler wrote: > For sure it could be better, but I'm already happy with the current > imperfect solution which I can use now and not some perfect solution which > might be available in some years. Alexander, to make it clear: we cannot include mechanisms which

Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2014-08-20 Thread Alexander Holler
Am 20.08.2014 10:24, schrieb Hagen Paul Pfeifer: On 19 August 2014 21:36, Alexander Holler wrote: It doesn't have to work in every environment and it doesn't have to solve all existing problems in the world. ;) But it enables people to protect a bit more against malicious people or government

Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2014-08-20 Thread Hagen Paul Pfeifer
On 19 August 2014 21:36, Alexander Holler wrote: > It doesn't have to work in every environment and it doesn't have to solve > all existing problems in the world. ;) > > But it enables people to protect a bit more against malicious people or > governments. > > And it is really very easy to use. I

Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2014-08-19 Thread Alexander Holler
Am 12.12.2013 15:34, schrieb Eric Dumazet: A bit late, but I've just stumbled over that feature which I do like a lot. Very soon you'll need to support different secrets. You do not want all clients share a common secret, do you ? How can a server change its secret without disrupting clients ?

Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2013-12-12 Thread Hannes Frederic Sowa
On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 04:46:37PM +0100, Hannes Frederic Sowa wrote: > On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 06:34:24AM -0800, Eric Dumazet wrote: > > With various proposals (like TCP minion), maybe its time to be able to > > implement part of TCP stack in user land (Keep the mux inside the > > kernel, and forw

Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2013-12-12 Thread Hannes Frederic Sowa
On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 06:34:24AM -0800, Eric Dumazet wrote: > With various proposals (like TCP minion), maybe its time to be able to > implement part of TCP stack in user land (Keep the mux inside the > kernel, and forward raw incoming packets to user land where all the > crazy things can be done

Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2013-12-12 Thread Eric Dumazet
On Thu, 2013-12-12 at 16:07 +0100, Christian Grothoff wrote: > I'm already having fun with IETF and pTLDs right now, one war at a time > ;-). I also figured it might be easier to have a reasonable working > reference implementation first and then standardize. After all, with my > recent draft so

Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2013-12-12 Thread Christian Grothoff
On 12/12/2013 03:34 PM, Eric Dumazet wrote: > On Thu, 2013-12-12 at 12:43 +0100, Christian Grothoff wrote: >> On 12/12/2013 11:19 AM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote: >>> I think that generally, I would prefer if the code didn't use MD5 but >>> otherwise, I don't see any real risk of adding an exploitable ho

Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2013-12-12 Thread Eric Dumazet
On Thu, 2013-12-12 at 12:43 +0100, Christian Grothoff wrote: > On 12/12/2013 11:19 AM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote: > > I think that generally, I would prefer if the code didn't use MD5 but > > otherwise, I don't see any real risk of adding an exploitable hole. It > > seems silly to disable it by default

Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2013-12-12 Thread Jacob Appelbaum
Christian Grothoff: > On 12/12/2013 11:19 AM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote: >> I think that generally, I would prefer if the code didn't use MD5 but >> otherwise, I don't see any real risk of adding an exploitable hole. It >> seems silly to disable it by default though - ideally, I'd like a sysctl >> to e

Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2013-12-12 Thread Christian Grothoff
On 12/12/2013 11:19 AM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote: > I think that generally, I would prefer if the code didn't use MD5 but > otherwise, I don't see any real risk of adding an exploitable hole. It > seems silly to disable it by default though - ideally, I'd like a sysctl > to ensure that Tor could use t

Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2013-12-12 Thread Jacob Appelbaum
Andi Kleen: >> ... and then do the same for the first TCP packet with payload? And you > > That gets passed through by the firewall rule. > As an application developer, I find it very common for our users to have difficulty synchronizing userspace program needs and firewall rules. This option wou

Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2013-12-11 Thread Andi Kleen
> ... and then do the same for the first TCP packet with payload? And you That gets passed through by the firewall rule. > seriously would consider that "safer" or "less error prone", starting Yes the risk of adding exploitable holes to the kernel is signficantly lower. -Andi -- To unsubscribe

Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2013-12-11 Thread Christian Grothoff
On 12/11/2013 10:25 PM, Andi Kleen wrote: > Stephen Hemminger writes: >> >> The point is that doing it outside of TCP core is safer, less error prone >> and more flexible. > > Or to put the question differently: what hooks would be needed to make > this efficiently work in user space? > > It cou

Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2013-12-11 Thread Andi Kleen
Stephen Hemminger writes: > > The point is that doing it outside of TCP core is safer, less error prone > and more flexible. Or to put the question differently: what hooks would be needed to make this efficiently work in user space? It could be something like this: Firewall the port with forward

Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2013-12-11 Thread Christian Grothoff
On 12/11/2013 09:26 PM, Stephen Hemminger wrote: > On Wed, 11 Dec 2013 21:19:00 +0100 > Christian Grothoff wrote: > >> On 12/11/2013 09:01 PM, David Miller wrote: >>> From: Christian Grothoff >>> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 19:35:36 +0100 >>> Only NAT implementations that change the SQN are not

Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2013-12-11 Thread Stephen Hemminger
On Wed, 11 Dec 2013 21:19:00 +0100 Christian Grothoff wrote: > On 12/11/2013 09:01 PM, David Miller wrote: > > From: Christian Grothoff > > Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 19:35:36 +0100 > > > >> Only NAT implementations that change the SQN are not supported > >> (those should be rare, but we have no ha

Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2013-12-11 Thread Christian Grothoff
On 12/11/2013 09:01 PM, David Miller wrote: > From: Christian Grothoff > Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 19:35:36 +0100 > >> Only NAT implementations that change the SQN are not supported >> (those should be rare, but we have no hard data on this). > > Even Linux's netfilter can and does do this, it is a

Re: [PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2013-12-11 Thread David Miller
From: Christian Grothoff Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 19:35:36 +0100 > Only NAT implementations that change the SQN are not supported > (those should be rare, but we have no hard data on this). Even Linux's netfilter can and does do this, it is absolutely necessary for tracking SIP and FTP protocols,

[PATCH] TCP: add option for silent port knocking with integrity protection

2013-12-10 Thread Christian Grothoff
Hi! We've written a patch to add support for a modern variant of silent TCP port knocking to Linux, and hope to convince you to include it in the kernel by default. The motivation is simple: given security services that stockpile undisclosed exploits, running TCP services on a visible port is ask