Hi, Bill.
Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 09:16:01AM -0400:
[]
> >Coloring isn't useful. If it was, it would be implemented ~16 years ago.
>
> So anything that wasn't implemented a decade ago is not useful? Virtual
> machines, software raid, fair scheduling, jumbo packets, SMT/SMP/NUMA
> support, support
Alan Cox wrote:
Jan's code is here today and it works fine for me. How can you
coherently argue against the plain fact that his feature solves my
usecases perfectly fine,
So add a notifier for console printk output. Then you can keep whatever
out of kernel patches you like for printk output in
Oleg Verych wrote:
Hallo, Ingo.
On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 08:07:07AM +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote:
To clarify. `Scrollback' here is *useful* scrollback during early boot
and OOPs (which is absent, AFAIK), "nothing like that" is coloring of the
messages by loglevel.
even if it were true (which it
On Mon, Oct 08, 2007 at 05:23:05AM +0200, Willy Tarreau wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 09:47:25PM +0200, Oleg Verych wrote:
> > > For instance, anyone who has experienced read errors on and IDE disk
> > > knows that it can literally take hours/days to boot, after displaying
> > > thousands of mes
On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 09:56:09PM +0200, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
>
> On Oct 7 2007 21:13, Willy Tarreau wrote:
> >There are two distinct populations :
> > - those [...]
> >who would never have imagined that pressing Escape
> >during the boot of windows 3.1/95 provided them with the full te
On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 09:47:25PM +0200, Oleg Verych wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 09:13:09PM +0200, Willy Tarreau wrote:
> > On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 08:47:52PM +0200, Rene Herman wrote:
> > > On 10/07/2007 06:12 PM, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> > >
> > > >* Oleg Verych <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
On Mon, Oct 08, 2007 at 12:11:21AM +0200, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
>
> Actually, blue is perceived as one of the darkest colors by the human
> eye. There is a reason that the RGB -> grayscale transformation uses
> the following weighting: r=76 g=154 b=26.
But, not every video card reproduces blue i
On Monday 08 October 2007 00:10:10 Rene Herman wrote:
> I find Alan's suggestion to provide the functionality the same way you'd
> provide for translated kernel messages (seeing as how there also are people
> that want those) much more sensible.
By the way, I agree that this is the best approach.
On Mon, Oct 08, 2007 at 01:01:33AM +0200, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
>
> On Oct 8 2007 01:02, Oleg Verych wrote:
> >
> >If you are not going to see OOPes of new kernels running old distros, ask
> >any perl hacker (as they lovely mentioned in lkml) to hack for you
> >something like:
> >
> >sed -u -e '
>
On Monday 08 October 2007 00:10:10 Rene Herman wrote:
> On 10/08/2007 12:40 AM, Alistair John Strachan wrote:
> > Splash screens are clearly cosmetic, and it's kind of shameful (imo) that
> > important messages explaining real problems are obscured from view by
> > functionless splash screens.
>
>
> is bogus, they're very functionally separable ideas. A coloured oops seems to
> be a good way of telling novice users what information is relevant to their
> bug report.
Unless they are colour blind or on a system like a PDA with a mono
display 8)
-
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On 10/08/2007 12:40 AM, Alistair John Strachan wrote:
Splash screens are clearly cosmetic, and it's kind of shameful (imo) that
important messages explaining real problems are obscured from view by
functionless splash screens.
They're not functionless. You (and I) might not care for the funct
On Oct 7 2007 17:23, Alan Cox wrote:
>
>>>- If you want to do "pretty" boot up you do it in X or frame buffer
>>>(which is going to get easier and easier with the X shift to kernel side
>>>video support)
>>
>> fb is slow. Feels like a 9600bps serial line.
>
>So fix your fb. There is enough inform
On Sunday 07 October 2007 20:13:09 you wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 08:47:52PM +0200, Rene Herman wrote:
> > On 10/07/2007 06:12 PM, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> > >* Oleg Verych <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>Coloring isn't useful. If it was, it would be implemented ~16 years
> > >>ago.
> > >
> > >C
On Oct 8 2007 01:02, Oleg Verych wrote:
>
>If you are not going to see OOPes of new kernels running old distros, ask
>any perl hacker (as they lovely mentioned in lkml) to hack for you
>something like:
>
>sed -u -e '
>/^<1/s_^_'$COLOR1'_
>/^<2/s_^_'$COLOR2'_
>/^<3/s_^_'$COLOR3'_
>/^<4/s_^_'$COLOR4
On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 11:11:54PM +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote:
>
> * Willy Tarreau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I would say that while I'm not particularly fond of flashy colors
> > everywhere, I think that being able to use colors to indicate
> > particular actions in progress or conditions
On Oct 8 2007 00:18, Oleg Verych wrote:
>
>Kind of funny thing with it. One for shell in `mcedit` is much nicer, but
>`emacs` is more powerful as editor(R). But both have highlighting
>problems with non trivial scripts (quoiting, data here, etc). I don't
>know if it will ever be fixed :).
No, it
On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 10:43:46PM +0200, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
>
> On Oct 7 2007 22:50, Oleg Verych wrote:
> >
> >In fact mc config (ini) section is a better way.
>
> Yes, for the default colors. But /usr/share/mc/syntax/ specifies
> more of them.
Syntax highlighting, OK.
Kind of funny thing w
> Jan's code is here today and it works fine for me. How can you
> coherently argue against the plain fact that his feature solves my
> usecases perfectly fine,
So add a notifier for console printk output. Then you can keep whatever
out of kernel patches you like for printk output in chinese, co
* Oleg Verych <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > For instance, anyone who has experienced read errors on and IDE disk
> > knows that it can literally take hours/days to boot, after
> > displaying thousands of messages. Here, having the ability to see
> > that no IRQ was assigned or something like
* Willy Tarreau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would say that while I'm not particularly fond of flashy colors
> everywhere, I think that being able to use colors to indicate
> particular actions in progress or conditions can be a good thing. RAID
> errors, devices disabled due to command-line
On Oct 7 2007 22:50, Oleg Verych wrote:
>
>In fact mc config (ini) section is a better way.
Yes, for the default colors. But /usr/share/mc/syntax/ specifies
more of them.
>I use default blue (which is very annoying)
If blue were annoying, it would not be the default Windows background
(since Wi
On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 10:04:44PM +0200, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
>
> On Oct 7 2007 22:00, Rene Herman wrote:
> > On 10/07/2007 09:56 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
> >
> >> Some is good, as long as it is not excessive. While I could imagine that
> >> Knoppix will abuse the feature and use vt.printk_colo
On 10/07/2007 10:04 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Oct 7 2007 22:00, Rene Herman wrote:
On 10/07/2007 09:56 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
Some is good, as long as it is not excessive. While I could imagine that
Knoppix will abuse the feature and use vt.printk_color=9,9,9,9,11,10,12, this
is not wha
On 10/07/2007 09:56 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
Some is good, as long as it is not excessive. While I could imagine that
Knoppix will abuse the feature and use vt.printk_color=9,9,9,9,11,10,12,
this is not what serious people would do.
[1] http://tinyurl.com/yr9zgq
[2] http://tinyurl.com/234ba3
On Oct 7 2007 21:27, Rene Herman wrote:
>
> I saw you remark on FB console in a reply to Alan just now and I
> quite agree with you. The (current) FB console is slow and I'll add
> "dumb" myself. When you have a 1280x1024 screen available, you get
> to do cool things like put up nice little window
On Oct 7 2007 22:00, Rene Herman wrote:
> On 10/07/2007 09:56 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
>
>> Some is good, as long as it is not excessive. While I could imagine that
>> Knoppix will abuse the feature and use vt.printk_color=9,9,9,9,11,10,12, this
>> is not what serious people would do.
>>
>> [1]
On 10/07/2007 09:13 PM, Willy Tarreau wrote:
On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 08:47:52PM +0200, Rene Herman wrote:
But well, there actually have been worse arguments given that VGA console
is getting less and less important. I recently did a perusal of alternative
distributions and didn't find a sing
On Oct 7 2007 21:13, Willy Tarreau wrote:
>There are two distinct populations :
> - those [...]
>who would never have imagined that pressing Escape
>during the boot of windows 3.1/95 provided them with the full text
>messages.
This is news to me. DOS always showed messages, and under
On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 09:13:09PM +0200, Willy Tarreau wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 08:47:52PM +0200, Rene Herman wrote:
> > On 10/07/2007 06:12 PM, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> >
> > >* Oleg Verych <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >>Coloring isn't useful. If it was, it would be implemented ~16 ye
On 10/07/2007 08:58 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Oct 7 2007 20:47, Rene Herman wrote:
Coloring isn't useful. If it was, it would be implemented ~16 years
ago.
Congratulations, this is the most stupid argument i've ever read on lkml.
"Ay. World is finished. Everyone can go home and watch Fri
On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 08:47:52PM +0200, Rene Herman wrote:
> On 10/07/2007 06:12 PM, Ingo Molnar wrote:
>
> >* Oleg Verych <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >>Coloring isn't useful. If it was, it would be implemented ~16 years
> >>ago.
> >
> >Congratulations, this is the most stupid argument i've
On Oct 7 2007 20:47, Rene Herman wrote:
>
>> > Coloring isn't useful. If it was, it would be implemented ~16 years
>> > ago.
>>
>> Congratulations, this is the most stupid argument i've ever read on lkml.
>
> "Ay. World is finished. Everyone can go home and watch Friends reruns now."
>
> But well
On 10/07/2007 06:12 PM, Ingo Molnar wrote:
* Oleg Verych <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Coloring isn't useful. If it was, it would be implemented ~16 years
ago.
Congratulations, this is the most stupid argument i've ever read on
lkml.
"Ay. World is finished. Everyone can go home and watch Fr
Em Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 04:12:22PM +0100, Alan Cox escreveu:
> > The few times I've tried to NAK something outright, I've always tried to
> > attach
> > plenty of technical explanation
>
> Fair comment to my "silly" response
>
> The problems I see are
>
> - We run on a lot more than VGA PC con
On Oct 7 2007 13:10, Oleg Verych wrote:
>This `scrollback' is usual late boot / console one. If fact useful,
>until first tty switch or if `screen` cannot be used. But for some
>reason if scrolling region (DECSTBM) is less than whole screen, nothing
>works.
Actually, scrolling begins to work onc
> >- If you want to do "pretty" boot up you do it in X or frame buffer
> >(which is going to get easier and easier with the X shift to kernel side
> >video support)
>
> fb is slow. Feels like a 9600bps serial line.
So fix your fb. There is enough information to cover 2D scrolling for
most modern
* Oleg Verych <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > even if it were true (which it isnt), that is not an argument
> > against including a useful change that exists now and that people
> > are interested in.
>
> Coloring isn't useful. If it was, it would be implemented ~16 years
> ago.
Congratulation
(changing Subject: back again, since Alan's returning to that topic...)
On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 16:12:22 BST, Alan Cox said:
> What I would much rather people thought about was
>
> - Marker modes for translation (so you know which bits of a message are
> formatted up)
> - More consistency on the use
On Oct 7 2007 16:12, Alan Cox wrote:
>
>- We run on a lot more than VGA PC consoles
>- We have serial consoles (which may or may not be VT132/ANSI compliant)
Yes, and the serial driver does not usually pass on vc->vc_color to the real
hardware. If it did, it would have to transform it back into a
> The few times I've tried to NAK something outright, I've always tried to
> attach
> plenty of technical explanation
Fair comment to my "silly" response
The problems I see are
- We run on a lot more than VGA PC consoles
- We have serial consoles (which may or may not be VT132/ANSI compliant)
On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 13:10:35 +0200, Oleg Verych said:
> > > I added comment (like this), so anyone can skip reading body, if
> > > headers are "Oleg Verych && NAK". In case if `NAK' have a magic
> > > meaning in the LKML, like control characters in the tty, i'm sorry.
> >
> > yes, a 'NAK' has a
Hallo, Ingo.
On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 08:07:07AM +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote:
>
> * Oleg Verych <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > * completely useless, if properly implemented in userspace (with
> > > > much reacher functionality).
> > >
> > > that's hogwash. No user-space runs during early b
* Oleg Verych <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > * completely useless, if properly implemented in userspace (with
> > > much reacher functionality).
> >
> > that's hogwash. No user-space runs during early bootup. (and yes i
> > want a color code at glance if something hangs in early bootup)
>
On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 11:03:38PM +0200, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
>
> On Oct 6 2007 23:03, Oleg Verych wrote:
> >>
> >> (btw., i corrected the subject line to remove the 'NAK'. Why do you
> >> think you can 'NAK' a patch in this field?)
> >
> >I added comment (like this), so anyone can skip readin
On Oct 6 2007 23:03, Oleg Verych wrote:
>>
>> (btw., i corrected the subject line to remove the 'NAK'. Why do you
>> think you can 'NAK' a patch in this field?)
>
>I added comment (like this), so anyone can skip reading body, if headers
>are "Oleg Verych && NAK". In case if `NAK' have a magic me
On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 09:48:20PM +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> >
> > This is a "kernel messages color-l10n".
> >
> > * text code size, that cannot be zero if config option is not set;
>
> not really an issue. Changing the inline function to non-inline will get
> rid of most of the text cost. Em
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