Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-23 Thread Bill Davidsen
Al Boldi wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 06:40:02 +0300, Al Boldi said: Sure, the idea was to mark the filter table obsolete as to make people start using the mangle table to do their filtering for new setups. The filter table would then still be available for

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-23 Thread Bill Davidsen
Al Boldi wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 06:40:02 +0300, Al Boldi said: Sure, the idea was to mark the filter table obsolete as to make people start using the mangle table to do their filtering for new setups. The filter table would then still be available for

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-20 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 07:31:58 +0300, Al Boldi said: > > Well, for example to stop any transient packets being forwarded. You could > > probably hack around this using mark's, but you can't stop the implied > > route lookup, unless you stop it in prerouting. > > Basically, you have one big

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-20 Thread Al Boldi
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 06:40:02 +0300, Al Boldi said: > > Sure, the idea was to mark the filter table obsolete as to make people > > start using the mangle table to do their filtering for new setups. The > > filter table would then still be available for legacy/special

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-20 Thread Jan Engelhardt
On Oct 20 2007 00:47, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> Sure, the idea was to mark the filter table obsolete as to make people start >> using the mangle table to do their filtering for new setups. The filter >> table would then still be available for legacy/special setups. But this >> would only

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-20 Thread Jan Engelhardt
On Oct 20 2007 00:47, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure, the idea was to mark the filter table obsolete as to make people start using the mangle table to do their filtering for new setups. The filter table would then still be available for legacy/special setups. But this would only be

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-20 Thread Al Boldi
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 06:40:02 +0300, Al Boldi said: Sure, the idea was to mark the filter table obsolete as to make people start using the mangle table to do their filtering for new setups. The filter table would then still be available for legacy/special setups.

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-20 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 07:31:58 +0300, Al Boldi said: Well, for example to stop any transient packets being forwarded. You could probably hack around this using mark's, but you can't stop the implied route lookup, unless you stop it in prerouting. Basically, you have one big unintended

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-19 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 06:40:02 +0300, Al Boldi said: > Sure, the idea was to mark the filter table obsolete as to make people start > using the mangle table to do their filtering for new setups. The filter > table would then still be available for legacy/special setups. But this > would only

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-19 Thread Al Boldi
Bill Davidsen wrote: > Bill Davidsen wrote: > If not, then shouldn't the filter table be obsoleted to avoid > confusion? > >>> > >>> That would probably confuse people. Just don't use it if you don't > >>> need to. > > > > That is a most practical suggestion. > > > >> The problem is that

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-19 Thread Al Boldi
Bill Davidsen wrote: Bill Davidsen wrote: If not, then shouldn't the filter table be obsoleted to avoid confusion? That would probably confuse people. Just don't use it if you don't need to. That is a most practical suggestion. The problem is that people think they are safe with

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-19 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 06:40:02 +0300, Al Boldi said: Sure, the idea was to mark the filter table obsolete as to make people start using the mangle table to do their filtering for new setups. The filter table would then still be available for legacy/special setups. But this would only be

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-18 Thread Matthew Faulkner
Hey all I'm using netperf to perform TCP throughput tests via the localhost interface. This is being done on a SMP machine. I'm forcing the netperf server and client to run on the same core. However, for any packet sizes below 523 the throughput is much lower compared to the throughput when the

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-18 Thread Matthew Faulkner
Hey all I'm using netperf to perform TCP throughput tests via the localhost interface. This is being done on a SMP machine. I'm forcing the netperf server and client to run on the same core. However, for any packet sizes below 523 the throughput is much lower compared to the throughput when the

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-17 Thread Bill Davidsen
Bill Davidsen wrote: If not, then shouldn't the filter table be obsoleted to avoid confusion? That would probably confuse people. Just don't use it if you don't need to. That is a most practical suggestion. The problem is that people think they are safe with the filter table, when in fact

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-17 Thread Bill Davidsen
Al Boldi wrote: Patrick McHardy wrote: Please send mails discussing netfilter to netfilter-devel. Ok. I just found out this changed to vger. But [EMAIL PROTECTED] is bouncing me. Al Boldi wrote: With the existence of the mangle table, how useful is the filter table? Other than

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-17 Thread Bill Davidsen
Al Boldi wrote: Patrick McHardy wrote: Please send mails discussing netfilter to netfilter-devel. Ok. I just found out this changed to vger. But [EMAIL PROTECTED] is bouncing me. Al Boldi wrote: With the existence of the mangle table, how useful is the filter table? Other than

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-17 Thread Bill Davidsen
Bill Davidsen wrote: If not, then shouldn't the filter table be obsoleted to avoid confusion? That would probably confuse people. Just don't use it if you don't need to. That is a most practical suggestion. The problem is that people think they are safe with the filter table, when in fact

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Patrick McHardy
Al Boldi wrote: Patrick McHardy wrote: The netlink based iptables successor I'm currently working on allows to dynamically create tables with user-specified priorities and "built-in" chains. The only built-in tables will be those that need extra processing (mangle/nat). So it should be

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Al Boldi
Patrick McHardy wrote: > Al Boldi wrote: > > But can you see how forcing people into splitting > > their rules across tables adds complexity. And without ipt_REJECT > > patch, they can't even use REJECT in prerouting, which forces them to do > > some strange hacks. > > > > IMHO, we should make

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Al Boldi
Patrick McHardy wrote: > Jan Engelhardt wrote: > > On Oct 12 2007 16:30, Al Boldi wrote: > With the existence of the mangle table, how useful is the filter > table? > >>> > >>>A similar discussion was back in March 2007. > >>>http://marc.info/?l=netfilter-devel=117394977210823=2 >

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Patrick McHardy
Jan Engelhardt wrote: > On Oct 12 2007 15:48, Patrick McHardy wrote: > >>The netlink based iptables successor I'm currently working on allows to >>dynamically create tables with user-specified priorities and "built-in" >>chains. The only built-in tables will be those that need extra >>processing

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Jan Engelhardt
On Oct 12 2007 15:48, Patrick McHardy wrote: > >The netlink based iptables successor I'm currently working on allows to >dynamically create tables with user-specified priorities and "built-in" >chains. The only built-in tables will be those that need extra >processing (mangle/nat). So it should

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Patrick McHardy
Jan Engelhardt wrote: > On Oct 12 2007 16:30, Al Boldi wrote: With the existence of the mangle table, how useful is the filter table? >>> >>>A similar discussion was back in March 2007. >>>http://marc.info/?l=netfilter-devel=117394977210823=2

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Jan Engelhardt
On Oct 12 2007 16:30, Al Boldi wrote: >Jan Engelhardt wrote: >> On Oct 12 2007 00:31, Al Boldi wrote: >> >With the existence of the mangle table, how useful is the filter table? >> >> A similar discussion was back in March 2007. >> http://marc.info/?l=netfilter-devel=117394977210823=2 >>

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Al Boldi
Jan Engelhardt wrote: > On Oct 12 2007 00:31, Al Boldi wrote: > >With the existence of the mangle table, how useful is the filter table? > > A similar discussion was back in March 2007. > http://marc.info/?l=netfilter-devel=117394977210823=2 > http://marc.info/?l=netfilter-devel=117400063907706=2

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Patrick McHardy
Al Boldi wrote: > Patrick McHardy wrote: > >>Al Boldi wrote: >> >>>Well, for example to stop any transient packets being forwarded. You >>>could probably hack around this using mark's, but you can't stop the >>>implied route lookup, unless you stop it in prerouting. >> >>This also works fine in

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Al Boldi
Patrick McHardy wrote: > Al Boldi wrote: > >>>The problem is that people think they are safe with the filter table, > >>>when in fact they need the prerouting chain to seal things. Right now > >>>this is only possible in the mangle table. > >> > >>Why do they need PREROUTING? > > > > Well, for

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Jan Engelhardt
On Oct 12 2007 00:31, Al Boldi wrote: > >With the existence of the mangle table, how useful is the filter table? A similar discussion was back in March 2007. http://marc.info/?l=netfilter-devel=117394977210823=2 http://marc.info/?l=netfilter-devel=117400063907706=2 in the end, my proposal was

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Patrick McHardy
Al Boldi wrote: >>>The problem is that people think they are safe with the filter table, >>>when in fact they need the prerouting chain to seal things. Right now >>>this is only possible in the mangle table. >> >>Why do they need PREROUTING? > > > Well, for example to stop any transient packets

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Al Boldi
Patrick McHardy wrote: > Al Boldi wrote: > > Patrick McHardy wrote: > >>Please send mails discussing netfilter to netfilter-devel. > > > > Ok. I just found out this changed to vger. But > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] is bouncing me. > > Seems to work, I got your mail on netfilter-devel. Looks like it

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Jan Engelhardt
On Oct 12 2007 16:30, Al Boldi wrote: Jan Engelhardt wrote: On Oct 12 2007 00:31, Al Boldi wrote: With the existence of the mangle table, how useful is the filter table? A similar discussion was back in March 2007. http://marc.info/?l=netfilter-develm=117394977210823w=2

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Al Boldi
Jan Engelhardt wrote: On Oct 12 2007 00:31, Al Boldi wrote: With the existence of the mangle table, how useful is the filter table? A similar discussion was back in March 2007. http://marc.info/?l=netfilter-develm=117394977210823w=2 http://marc.info/?l=netfilter-develm=117400063907706w=2

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Jan Engelhardt
On Oct 12 2007 00:31, Al Boldi wrote: With the existence of the mangle table, how useful is the filter table? A similar discussion was back in March 2007. http://marc.info/?l=netfilter-develm=117394977210823w=2 http://marc.info/?l=netfilter-develm=117400063907706w=2 in the end, my proposal was

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Patrick McHardy
Al Boldi wrote: Patrick McHardy wrote: Al Boldi wrote: Well, for example to stop any transient packets being forwarded. You could probably hack around this using mark's, but you can't stop the implied route lookup, unless you stop it in prerouting. This also works fine in FORWARD with a

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Jan Engelhardt
On Oct 12 2007 15:48, Patrick McHardy wrote: The netlink based iptables successor I'm currently working on allows to dynamically create tables with user-specified priorities and built-in chains. The only built-in tables will be those that need extra processing (mangle/nat). So it should be

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Patrick McHardy
Jan Engelhardt wrote: On Oct 12 2007 15:48, Patrick McHardy wrote: The netlink based iptables successor I'm currently working on allows to dynamically create tables with user-specified priorities and built-in chains. The only built-in tables will be those that need extra processing

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Al Boldi
Patrick McHardy wrote: Al Boldi wrote: Patrick McHardy wrote: Please send mails discussing netfilter to netfilter-devel. Ok. I just found out this changed to vger. But [EMAIL PROTECTED] is bouncing me. Seems to work, I got your mail on netfilter-devel. Looks like it works sometimes.

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Patrick McHardy
Al Boldi wrote: The problem is that people think they are safe with the filter table, when in fact they need the prerouting chain to seal things. Right now this is only possible in the mangle table. Why do they need PREROUTING? Well, for example to stop any transient packets being

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Patrick McHardy
Jan Engelhardt wrote: On Oct 12 2007 16:30, Al Boldi wrote: With the existence of the mangle table, how useful is the filter table? A similar discussion was back in March 2007. http://marc.info/?l=netfilter-develm=117394977210823w=2 http://marc.info/?l=netfilter-develm=117400063907706w=2 in

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Al Boldi
Patrick McHardy wrote: Al Boldi wrote: The problem is that people think they are safe with the filter table, when in fact they need the prerouting chain to seal things. Right now this is only possible in the mangle table. Why do they need PREROUTING? Well, for example to stop any

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Al Boldi
Patrick McHardy wrote: Jan Engelhardt wrote: On Oct 12 2007 16:30, Al Boldi wrote: With the existence of the mangle table, how useful is the filter table? A similar discussion was back in March 2007. http://marc.info/?l=netfilter-develm=117394977210823w=2

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Al Boldi
Patrick McHardy wrote: Al Boldi wrote: But can you see how forcing people into splitting their rules across tables adds complexity. And without ipt_REJECT patch, they can't even use REJECT in prerouting, which forces them to do some strange hacks. IMHO, we should make things as

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-12 Thread Patrick McHardy
Al Boldi wrote: Patrick McHardy wrote: The netlink based iptables successor I'm currently working on allows to dynamically create tables with user-specified priorities and built-in chains. The only built-in tables will be those that need extra processing (mangle/nat). So it should be

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-11 Thread Al Boldi
Patrick McHardy wrote: > Please send mails discussing netfilter to netfilter-devel. Ok. I just found out this changed to vger. But [EMAIL PROTECTED] is bouncing me. > Al Boldi wrote: > > With the existence of the mangle table, how useful is the filter table? > > > > Other than requiring the

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-11 Thread Patrick McHardy
Please send mails discussing netfilter to netfilter-devel. Al Boldi wrote: > With the existence of the mangle table, how useful is the filter table? > > Other than requiring the REJECT target to be ported to the mangle table, is > the filter table faster than the mangle table? There are some

[RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-11 Thread Al Boldi
With the existence of the mangle table, how useful is the filter table? Other than requiring the REJECT target to be ported to the mangle table, is the filter table faster than the mangle table? If not, then shouldn't the filter table be obsoleted to avoid confusion? Thanks! -- Al - To

[RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-11 Thread Al Boldi
With the existence of the mangle table, how useful is the filter table? Other than requiring the REJECT target to be ported to the mangle table, is the filter table faster than the mangle table? If not, then shouldn't the filter table be obsoleted to avoid confusion? Thanks! -- Al - To

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-11 Thread Patrick McHardy
Please send mails discussing netfilter to netfilter-devel. Al Boldi wrote: With the existence of the mangle table, how useful is the filter table? Other than requiring the REJECT target to be ported to the mangle table, is the filter table faster than the mangle table? There are some minor

Re: [RFD] iptables: mangle table obsoletes filter table

2007-10-11 Thread Al Boldi
Patrick McHardy wrote: Please send mails discussing netfilter to netfilter-devel. Ok. I just found out this changed to vger. But [EMAIL PROTECTED] is bouncing me. Al Boldi wrote: With the existence of the mangle table, how useful is the filter table? Other than requiring the REJECT